Recipe Design Help

I wonder if anyone can help me with recipe design? I use Beersmith 2.0 and find that I start off defininf the style of beer I want, and I get the guideline ranges in terms of OG, colour, bitterness and abv%. The description of the ingredients is pretty helpful, but then I find myself a little stuck thereafter.

I also have the book "CloneBrews" which is a pretty extensive recipe book, but doesn't contain recipes for the beers I like commmercially, so I can't see what type of ingredients I might be after.

I like ales, standard to strong, with more emphasis on the fruity ester characteristics than the very hoppy ones. I also like mouthfeel. My feeling is FG of around 1.012 is what I really like to get to, and carb levels around 2.0 suits me.

How do I get the fruity ester taste on the palate? Some people have suggested low yeast pitch rates, higher mash temperatures etc, but is there something more fundamental at the recipe stage which I can do?

my ideal beers are : Sambrooks Wandle Ale Sambrook's Brewery


Youngs London Gold :
Young's - our beer

Both of these are made using pretty much the same water as me (Youngs brewery is about 5km from my house)

What do you think?

Bitters are, or at least should be IMO, simple beers. A base of good pale malt and a small amount of crystal are where to start. For extra mouthfeel I would suggest a bit of dextrin malt. That allows you to add some texture to the beer without disturbing the flavor but at the same time ustilize a fairly low mash temperature to keep the beer well attenuated. Esters are basically a function of yeast choice combined with fermentation conditions. Yeast strains derived from many famous breweries and beer styles are available from the White Labs and Wyeast portfolios. The books from Protz and Wheeler are quite good source material when trying to homebrew versions of UK ales.

Thanks for this Ed. I agree totally with the simplicity. I am using maris otter, british crystal and that is a good idea about dextrin malt. I am using the Wyeast London ale yeast strains - tried a few of them. Thanks for the point towards Protz and Wheeler. This is my next stop !

I make an Amber ale with Ringwood Yeast. That definitely gives the beer a fruity quality (more banana-ish), especially when I was fermenting closer to 70 degrees. Everyone who's tried it seemed to like it, even those who aren't really beer drinkers.

Thanks Mac - I will try this yeast at a stage. I do ferment pretty close to 70 degrees.

Murray said:

Thanks for this Ed. I agree totally with the simplicity. I am using maris otter, british crystal and that is a good idea about dextrin malt. I am using the Wyeast London ale yeast strains - tried a few of them. Thanks for the point towards Protz and Wheeler. This is my next stop !

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Below is my take on Coniston's Bluebird Bitter. One of my favorites and a good example, I hope, of a basic bitter recipe. This is for a 10 US Gallon batch and this brew is at the high end of the bitter range, perhaps overlapping into special bitter territory but the framework is the same.

10 Gallons
Est OG 1.050, Est IBU 40

15.5 lb MO Pale malt
.75 lb Crystal 55L
Mash @ 66C/151F for 60 minutes

2 oz Challenger @ 90 min
1 oz Challenger @ 15 min

London Ale Yeast, White Labs WLP-013

Thanks Ed. I am going to cross over to White Labs for a couple of batches. I use Wyeast London ale strains like 1968 but will see if I get any difference with White Labs. Will give that recipe of yours a try.

BigEd said:

That allows you to add some texture to the beer without disturbing the flavor but at the same time ustilize a fairly low mash temperature to keep the beer well attenuated.

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Or... you can skip the dextrin malt and just use a higher mash temp to achieve the exact same thing.

One question I have : If attenuation is something the yeast do, how does keeping the mash temperature low keep the beer well attenuated?

Murray said:

One question I have : If attenuation is something the yeast do, how does keeping the mash temperature low keep the beer well attenuated?

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It allows the enzymes to turn more of the complex sugars into simpler, fermentable sugars.

One misconception that many, if not most, homebrewers have is that these complex sugars are sweet, meaning a higher mash temp will result in a sweeter beer (since the yeast won't convert them). They're not, and it doesn't. Mash temp ultimately controls a very simple tradeoff - alcohol vs body.

emjay said:

Or... you can skip the dextrin malt and just use a higher mash temp to achieve the exact same thing.

Click to expand...

IMO it's not quite exactly the same thing. In my experience the combination of a lower mash temperature and a small dose of dextrin malt gives you a little more control over the situation, especially with the beer's attenuation.

Murray said:

Thanks Ed. I am going to cross over to White Labs for a couple of batches. I use Wyeast London ale strains like 1968 but will see if I get any difference with White Labs. Will give that recipe of yours a try.

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The White Labs yeast is what I am using because my local supplier carries that brand. The Wyeast 1028 London is also excellent. You can't go wrong with either.

Murray said:

Thanks Ed. I am going to cross over to White Labs for a couple of batches. I use Wyeast London ale strains like 1968 but will see if I get any difference with White Labs. Will give that recipe of yours a try.

Click to expand...

Actually, 1968 is the ESB strain and is very different to 1028 (London Ale).
The 1028 is very minerally, while the 1968 is very estery. I like 1028 for bottled pale ales with a reasonable degree of carbonation, but much prefer 1968 for a draught beer with very low carbonation.
I haven't tried any of the other London ale strains from Wyeast.
I can't tell the difference between WY1968 and WLP002, but notice a very big difference between WY1028 and WLP013. I just don't like the WLP013, which I find to be lacking in character.

-a.