The Price Experiment

cheeseshark said:

This is really cool. I would look forward to seeing the 2-3 recipe comparison.

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You could help out and do it and post it - it's not like he's working with secret information - take the recipes, combine 3 of them, and test out the order at various retailers. This tends to be how I work an actual order, though I had somehow missed midwest up until this thread. Of course, who has what can affect things, too (such as oat malt at NB, but not at many others - won't know how much that matters until I brew a few batches trying it out, of course - but I wanted to try it).

One of the intangibles that I was thinking of writing up a bit on.... is website navigation. I can assemble orders the fastest on Austin Homebrew's and Midwest's websites. Northern is a close third, only becoming slightly balky when I switch between large-ish pages, and scrolling uuuuup and dooooown, over and over. MoreBeer definitely gets the thumbs-down, though. Takes me twice as long to assemble a recipe there, over anyone else. Their search is dismal, at best.

The only super-minor gripe I have about Austin Homebrew's cart system is no editing of numbers, due to how it's structured. It's not a HUGE deal, don't get me wrong, I'm not b*tching about it. If I had to find a criticism, though, it's that the traditional cart method of "Change number, then press update", like NB and B3 have, OR the "Increase / Decrease / Remove" links that Midwest have, are all a little easier to make minor checks and revisions before buying, whereas if you want to go from 13 lbs to 14 lbs of base grain, you have to remove, and readd the item.

Finally, a tiny little thumbs up to MoreBeer, who is the only one with an "Empty Cart" button. But honestly, as brewers, why would we want to empty our cart! Only thing we wanna do is add more to it!

Austin Homebrew Supply has just launched a new series of beer kits. Almost all of the all-grain kits in this series are priced at $21.99. There are 24 kits to choose from. These kits should be the lowest priced kits you will find. Here is a link:

Austin Homebrew Supply

Austinhomebrew said:

Austin Homebrew Supply has just launched a new series of beer kits. Almost all of the all-grain kits in this series are priced at $21.99. There are 24 kits to choose from. These kits should be the lowest priced kits you will find. Here is a link:

Austin Homebrew Supply

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The page you linked doesn't have anything under $26.49.

Edit: Nevermind, I forgot about how your site works with the subtracting and whatnot.

Mike

It's been a while, so I thought I would revisit this with my favorite kind of brew: SMaSH Blonde Ale!!!

Adding one new price scenario, this is 40# 2-Row, 4oz Sterling Hop Pellets, and 2 packets US-05 dry yeast. You could brew this as 2- 10gallon batches, or you could do 4- 5gallon batches by making a yeast starter and splitting the slurry in half.

Here are the results:

6. 20-Gallon Sterling SMaSH (Or 2x 10 gallon or 4x 5 gallon)
I'm adding this to the OP too.

why no crushed grains ? they don't cost any more - home brew or online they will crush them for free

whats the point in that ?

Austinhomebrew said:

You should put the results in order of price or my favorite, alphabetical order by store.

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I'm sorry I missed this suggestion earlier - I overlooked it. I have reorganized the prices on each recipe by lowest price, and the low-price vendor is now in underline. Thanks for the idea.

why no crushed grains ? they don't cost any more - home brew or online they will crush them for free

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Speaking only for myself, I want to crush my own grains to where I like them- to maximize efficiency on my system using my process.

Nothing more

Oh, and I believe that NB(?) charges slightly more for crushed vs. whole grain.

Mutilated1 said:

why no crushed grains ? they don't cost any more - home brew or online they will crush them for free

whats the point in that ?

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Northern Brewer and MoreBeer do charge more for crushed. I am just trying to be up-front about as many variables as possible, so that nobody can accuse me of bias. Of course if a person doesn't have a grain mill, they should order crushed.

Wait...I put a 50lb bag of 2-Row, 4oz Sterling Hop Pellets, and 2 packets US-05 dry yeast in my cart at MoreBeer and it only came out to $43.65 before shipping. However, the bag of bag of 2-row doesn't come with free shipping, so that would be an extra $40 to get it shipped. It costs $61.40 only if you add 40 1lb bags, because then somehow you do get free shipping (I don't know if they'd actually give it to you though). Also I'd like to point out 3 things:
1) it is only $61 if you add the "domestic 2-row", but at AHS you are adding Rahr malt, which is not the same. 40lbs of Rahr at MB is $68something
2) It is much cheaper if you buy the 50lb bags of 2-row, but at AHS for the same price, for whatever reason, you only get 40lbs. Since everyone gets their grain from the same places, and AHS is the only one that has the same price for 10lbs less, that one has me scratching my head.
3) MoreBeer charges 10 cents per pound to crush.

phissionkorps said:

1) it is only $61 if you add the "domestic 2-row", but at AHS you are adding Rahr malt, which is not the same. 40lbs of Rahr at MB is $68something
2) It is much cheaper if you buy the 50lb bags of 2-row, but at AHS for the same price, for whatever reason, you only get 40lbs. Since everyone gets their grain from the same places, and AHS is the only one that has the same price for 10lbs less, that one has me scratching my head.

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1) Rahr brand is the cheapest 2-Row malt offered at everywhere *but* MoreBeer. MoreBeer's cheapest is Great Western brand. I meant to note that, but got in a hurry. Either way - unless I am using "brand name", e.g. Maris Otter or Golden Promise, then I am using the cheapest 2-Row that each vendor offers. I will edit to reflect that - Like I said, I just got in a hurry, and didn't clarify that point.

Edit: I edited the original post to clarify this.

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2) Austin Homebrew 40# cases have been discussed before in a few different threads - They sell wine kits in a very sturdy box that just happens to hold exactly 40# of grain. Forrest says this saves money on buying one less size of box and on the lower shipping cost for the standard-sized box.

Me, personally... I prefer buying an actual, sealed sack, and putting it into my metal grain bin in the basement. That's just personal preference.

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As far as what you mentioned re: MoreBeer, and 40# of by-the-pound grain, if their site allows me to purchase it, and allows me to put it under the MoreSaver! shipping, then I would expect them to honor it. If they called to re-quote me, then I would probably thank them politely, cancel my order, and move to the 2nd cheapest place on the list.

And I don't think it would be 40 1# sacks - that's just how their checkout system works. I would suspect they'd do multiple paper sacks with 10# or 15# or 20# in each. That's how they do the base grain on their kits, at least.

Flip that around the other way, phission, from Austin Homebrew, would you expect there be a $10 surcharge on 4 bags with 10# grain in each bag, as opposed to the 40# box?

Remember, in the spirit of this experiment, we are buying (4) 5-gallon recipe kits, or (2) 10-gallon recipe kits, not bulk ingredients per se. We are trying to simulate batches. Not just a storeroom.

All grains sans bulk are eligible for the free shipping at MB it does not say anything about quantity. I just made up a mock order with 50lbs domestic 2 row came out to 62.50 with the moresaver shipping as an option

50 lbs bulk was 32.25 plus 45.60 shipping = 77.8

Dont know if they can renege on the shipping after you pay for the order?

mmm makes me think about the next order split it up into 2 with 25 lbs of this 10 lbs of that and some other items....

I ordered my 9/9/09 grains and one other recipe from MB, it was something like 40 -45lbs of grain, can you say free shipping.:rockin:

Austinhomebrew said:

Austin Homebrew Supply has just launched a new series of beer kits. Almost all of the all-grain kits in this series are priced at $21.99. There are 24 kits to choose from. These kits should be the lowest priced kits you will find. Here is a link:

Austin Homebrew Supply

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Midwest, NB and Morebeer have some for a little less... but they are all low OG session beers like yours, when you can buy AG kits at other on line vendors (Midwest) for the same price which contain more malt and boast OGs in the 50-60 point range. It is almost like saying that you sell "sacks" of grain for less than anyone else... you do, but your "sack" is 40lbs and thiers are 50-55lbs.

I like these comparisons, I have done my own... which is why I chose to buy ingredients for (2) brews at a time. Why? Because that way I take advantage of Morebeers FREE shipping, which coupled with thier lower prices, makes them #1 for price, hands down. I have shopped the "BIG 4" onlie stores for each of my last 8 brews and Morebeer has been cheaper, by 25-30% each time when buying (2) brews at a time. I have posted those comparisons here as well. Keep in mind when I do this, I am pricing ingredients for the SAME recipes at each store, so it is apples to apples, I am not buying liquid yeast over here and dry yeast over there etc.

That being said, I am also a big supporter of my friends up north at Midwest, bought my kegging supplies and some kits there and was very pleased with pricing and shipping.
_________________________________________
Primary- Circle City Haus Ale
Secondary- Orange Cascade APA (dry hop)
Keg1- Centennial Blonde (On tap)
Keg2- Oktoberfest (On tap)
Keg3- Christmas Spice
Keg4- Fire In The Hole
Keg5- AIR
Keg6- AIR
Keg7- AIR
Keg8- AIR

I hate you guys.
Based on this thread I was originally going to price and place an order for my next 2 recipies, but then added pricing for a 3rd, then bases on the 3 recipies I had 31# of Maris Otter in my basket so I decided screw it lets see what a 55# sack would cost and that wasn't that bad so here's what I priced and purchased:
1 oz Glacier hops
3 oz Tettnang (had to substitute at NB and MB)
3lb Light DME
55# Maris Otter
2# Munich
2#C60L
1#C80L
1#C120L
1#Victory
1#Chocolate
1# Black Roast BArley
1# Flaked Oats

With Shipping my totals rounded to nearest dollar were as follows:
Austin Home Brew $164 (all grains crushed)
MoreBeer $154 (no grains crushed and I don't have a mill)
NorthernBrewer $153 (MO not crushed, but all others crushed)
Midwest $122 (All grains Crushed and no hops subs)

DAMN how am I going to explain the 70# box that shows up at the house.
Silver lining is with the modest hops stash I already have and some washed yeast on hand, I have Ingredients available for my next 5 brews. Which will be LondonHook ESB, Jamil's Oatmeal Stout, BierMunchers Outerlimits IPA, a Fuggles/MO SMaSH, and A Kitchen Sink Brew with the remaining grain.

GreenwoodRover said:

Silver lining is with the modest hops stash I already have and some washed yeast on hand, I have Ingredients available for my next 5 brews. Which will be LondonHook ESB, Jamil's Oatmeal Stout, BierMunchers Outerlimits IPA, a Fuggles/MO SMaSH, and A Kitchen Sink Brew with the remaining grain.

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Good call on the Outer Limits IPA. I take it you loved that beer too? That was damn heavenly, IMO.

No, we hate you... I love it when a conversation about BUDGETING turns into massive ammounts of CONSUMPTION!

Go Midwest... they are a good store.

_________________________________________
Primary- Circle City Haus Ale
Secondary- Orange Cascade APA (dry hop)
Keg1- Centennial Blonde (On tap)
Keg2- Oktoberfest (On tap)
Keg3- Christmas Spice
Keg4- Fire In The Hole
Keg5- AIR
Keg6- AIR
Keg7- AIR
Keg8- AIR

The Pol said:

Go Midwest... they are a good store.

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+1
Hope he read this thread and went for the discount.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f86/midwest-supply-aha-club-discount-85191/

Thanks to this thread I just placed my first order with Midwest. They beat out Austin Homebrew Supply, MoreBeer, Listermann's, and my LHBS.

I have removed the shipping surcharge for bulk grain and lowered the price on top of that. To my dismay most of the bulk grains had the wrong price on them. For example the Maris Otter went down $18.

I am looking at all of the prices to see whre we can lower the price now that costs have stabilized.

Forrest

My God Forrest, bless your business. You deserve it man!!! No response necessary, just hope you keep kicking arse!!!

Austinhomebrew said:

I have removed the shipping surcharge for bulk grain and lowered the price on top of that. To my dismay most of the bulk grains had the wrong price on them. For example the Maris Otter went down $18.

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I will re-calc and edit the price for the 20 gallon batch right away! Thanks for the update, Forrest.

Awesome Forrest, great to have you as part of the forum.

Austinhomebrew said:

I have removed the shipping surcharge for bulk grain and lowered the price on top of that. To my dismay most of the bulk grains had the wrong price on them. For example the Maris Otter went down $18.

I am looking at all of the prices to see whre we can lower the price now that costs have stabilized.

Forrest

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Awesome!

I can't wait until I get a grain mill. Hopefully do it in the next month and then I can start stocking up on bulk grain.

I'm with Wort Monger.
Forrest...You guys ROCK!

How many bags of 2 row do I have to buy to get the free Barley Crusher?

I like AHS website interface better......its a pain in the ass to browse Midwest.


But AHS's bulk pricing on grains like White Wheat yield no price advantages when buying 20lbs verses 1 lb.

^+1!!!!
I really hated to send my last order to Midwest. The site is a pain and so far their shipping is way slower that AHS, but for the price difference I had to do it. I'm glad this experiment helped Forrest to find some errors. IMO in business there is nothing worse than finding out (tool late) that there was an error in your pricing that lost you an order. I know it happened to me on more than one occasion when I used to sell commercial roofing.

Here my order....

--AHS--

2- Cascade Pellet Hops (1 oz) $5.98

1- Torrified Wheat 10 lbs $15.00

1- White Wheat 10 lbs $17.00

1- Flaked Wheat 10 lbs $15.00

2- Wheat Liquid Malt Extract 6lbs $32.28

Sub-Total: $85.26 +6.99 Ship = $92.25





--Midwest--

2- Cascade Pellet Hops (1 oz) $5.00

1- Torrified Wheat 10 lbs $10.00

1- White Wheat 10 lbs $10.00

1- Flaked Wheat 10 lbs $10.00

2- Wheat Liquid Malt Extract 6lbs $29.00

Sub-Total: $64.00 + [75645] Shipping: $21.82 = $85.82



Shipping is alot from MN. But no quantity discounts are killing it for AHS. I just wish AHS would actually give a bulk discount on some specialty grains. Its says bulk....but mathematically, there no discount. I pay the same for 1lb, as I would for 10 or 20 lbs.

ApolloSpeed said:

Here my order....
Shipping is alot from MN. But no quantity discounts are killing it for AHS. I just wish AHS would actually give a bulk discount on some specialty grains. Its says bulk....but mathematically, there no discount. I pay the same for 1lb, as I would for 10 or 20 lbs.

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This may take me a couple days to implement but I will work in a bulk discount. I will make it so.

Forrest

Austinhomebrew said:

This may take me a couple days to implement but I will work in a bulk discount. I will make it so.

Forrest

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thank you kind sir.

I don't really wanna jump ship to Midwest.... I'd like to keep my business with my Texas homies.

ApolloSpeed said:

I like AHS website interface better......its a pain in the ass to browse Midwest.

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I personally prefer Midwest's design, followed closely by Austin Homebrew. Both MoreBeer and NorthernBrewer's website design are, in my opinion, so atrocious that I rarely even bother to check their sites anymore.

Of course with any matter of opinion, YMMV.

I only carry a couple Breiss grains out of necessity. Midwest uses Breiss for a lot of their specialty grains. Breiss is less expensive partly because they use 6 row for their specialty grains instead of 2 row. Most of my grain is imported so it costs me more. Do you guys want me to carry the 6 row breiss instead? All of the people I have asked prefer that I sell 2-row specialty grains. If you are comparing price keep that in mind.

I will look at all of the grain prices tonight as see what I can lower. I will also look into less expensive 2 row specialty grains.

Forrest

Well..... i"m just saying I think there should be atleast a little price break from 1lb to 10 lbs.....right?

That I can fix.

Forrest

I've never really thought about what kind of grain the specialty grains are made from. I would have guessed it was all 2-row if you'd have asked me. Does it really make a significant difference if the specialty grains are made of 6-row?

Austinhomebrew said:

That I can fix.

Forrest

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let us know when ya get it all worked out..... I got a big order to make soon.:rockin:

conpewter said:

I've never really thought about what kind of grain the specialty grains are made from. I would have guessed it was all 2-row if you'd have asked me. Does it really make a significant difference if the specialty grains are made of 6-row?

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My LHBS sells both 2-row and 6-row specialty grains (mostly various crystals). I've used both kinds and can't tell the difference, but YMMV.

Austinhomebrew said:

I have removed the shipping surcharge for bulk grain and lowered the price on top of that. To my dismay most of the bulk grains had the wrong price on them. For example the Maris Otter went down $18.

I am looking at all of the prices to see whre we can lower the price now that costs have stabilized.

Forrest

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Damn thanks Forrest now where is that coupon from last order...

let us know when ya get it all worked out..... I got a big order to make soon.

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+1
I've planned out my next 5 or 6 brews...just waiting on the bulk discount and/or lowering to go through.

ApolloSpeed said:

Here my order....

--AHS--

2- Cascade Pellet Hops (1 oz) $5.98

1- Torrified Wheat 10 lbs $15.00

1- White Wheat 10 lbs $17.00

1- Flaked Wheat 10 lbs $15.00

2- Wheat Liquid Malt Extract 6lbs $32.28

Sub-Total: $85.26 +6.99 Ship = $92.25





--Midwest--

2- Cascade Pellet Hops (1 oz) $5.00

1- Torrified Wheat 10 lbs $10.00

1- White Wheat 10 lbs $10.00

1- Flaked Wheat 10 lbs $10.00

2- Wheat Liquid Malt Extract 6lbs $29.00

Sub-Total: $64.00 + [75645] Shipping: $21.82 = $85.82



Shipping is alot from MN. But no quantity discounts are killing it for AHS. I just wish AHS would actually give a bulk discount on some specialty grains. Its says bulk....but mathematically, there no discount. I pay the same for 1lb, as I would for 10 or 20 lbs.

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Austinhomebrew said:

That I can fix.

Forrest

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just wondering if ya got to fixing up the quantity breaks yet? I'm needing to make a fat order soon.


much appreshhed!!:rockin: