Help! Does anyone know why my wheat beers are darkening in the bottle?

I've tried two wheat beers so far, the first was an all-extract that I racked over some banana puree (frozen -> blended with EtOH) in the secondary. I then tried a Honey Hefeweizen (1 lb. honey in the last 15 min of boil). By this time, I had moved to a partial-mash with some wheat malt.

Both of them have really darkened in the bottle. I was wondering if the bananas had been the culprit in the first beer, but the second partial-mash was even worse. This was very disappointing because I had such high hopes for it when I bottled it (the color was light / normal at that point).

I should mention that I do use green Grolsch 16oz swing-tops to bottle, but would this be some phenomenon that is particular to wheat beers (since my others haven't darkened like that)? I also added a few cloves to the boil in each of the recipes, but again, the darkening seemed to happen in the bottle. I used a 5.2 pH buffer with the partial mash.

Other than that, the beers taste good, so I don't think its an infection thing.

Does anyone else have any experience with this, or have any other insights?

Perhaps it is not getting darker, only the particulate matter is settling and no longer reflecting light making it appear as though it is darker. I doubt that the color is actually changing in the bottle.

Its pretty dark, though. Like almost as if I had brewed with darker specialty grains and not wheat. It seems like I would have had some idea from the beer at the time I bottled it, if it was from particulate matter.

I worry that maybe I oxidize my beers to much when racking.... is oxidation known to have a bigger effect on wheat per se?

I'm just wondering if these were both Hefeweizen yeasts? Those yeasts are known for their low flocculation, so they appear cloudy (and possibly lighter) when young. However, age & refrigeration will accelerate the flocculation, and they may clear... leaving behind the true beer color without the yeast in suspension.

Just a thought.... not sure if that is what is going on...

I've only kegged my American Wheats, and I use Nottingham on those..which finishes quite clear. Not really aged any either...

Good luck!

--LexusChris

Well thanks for the replies. Yes, they both were hefeweizen yeasts. My first try (with the bananas) was a Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan with a starter. The second was Wyeast 3638 Bavarian Wheat with no starter. I think I like the second better as far as the ester profile, though unsure whether it was the strain or underpitching.

I had one of my Belgian Abbey beers last night as well as one of the Hefeweizens. The Hefe is way darker, (despite using darker specialty grains with the Abbey, the Abbey looks more like a trippel than the dubbel I was going for.) So its not that ALL my beers are dark, just the wheat ones. I just don't get it. Its not quite 'stout' dark, more similar to a black lager.

But it sounds like there's no 'common knowlege' of this particular phenomenon, so I guess I'll just keep trying and varying my method. Maybe try distilled water next time, or skip the 5.2 buffer.

My money's on what theonetrueruss said - the sediment floating around made it look lighter. The reason it's darker than most wheat beers you'd drink, I'd guess, is because of our good old friend the maillard reaction (caramelization) due to using extract.

A picture would be good - I'm curious just how dark it is. It's sounding like it's in brown ale territory, which isn't right at all.

I find that wheat extracts tend to brown more than other types, for some reason. The dry extracts stay noticeably lighter.

I'm guessing you're not boiling the full 5 gallons - what is your boil volume? I think your two best options here are either doing full-volume boils, or going all-grain.

+1 for the sediment dropping out.

There is, to my knowledge, nothing that will darken a beer once you place it in bottles. Exposure to massive sunlight would lighten the beer if anything, and the various infections that can plague bottled homebrew never alter the color, as far as I know.

You still had yeast in suspension when you bottled, which makes the beer look lighter because they are reflecting light. You can see this in glass carboys when your yeast drops out even before bottling. Within a few days your nice blonde ale is now a few shades more amber than you intended.

Swirl the bottles gently before opening and see if that lightens up the color when serving.

Okay. Here is a picture of the beer. The flash actually makes it look murkier than it really is, but it also lightens the actual color. SO... your point about the floaters is well taken. But still, its way darker than I wanted for a hefeweizen and an overall failure.

You're also correct in your assumption that I do a partial boil (3 gal topped to five). Its just so convenient with respect to pot size and temperature control that I am reluctant to go to a full boil. If you really think thats my issue, then I'll have to decide how HOW BAD I want the hefeweizen, I guess. And I did use DME, not LME. I'm just wondering if its something specific to wheat, since my trappist ale turned out lighter than expected, and it was also a partial boil.....

I've done partial boil hefes from extract with that much volume and it didn't come out anywhere near that dark.

Another thought. When adding the extract, make sure you take it off the heat, add the extract, stir very thoroughly, then put it back on the heat. With it that dark I'm wondering if the syrup or powder didn't burn sitting on the bottom of the pan because it wasn't dissolved.

I may have.... is that a potential issue with DME too (as well as LME)?

Can oxidation cause darkening? I wish I knew if it tastes oxidized. Its drinkable, but it tastes nothing like a nice Paulaner.

I think so, but I'm not sure on DME. Oxidation I believe causes browning - it's responsible for apple slices browning, and for tea leaves after being picked green for turning into black tea - but I'm not sure if it would be that dramatic in beer. Every extract hefe I've made, be it LME or DME, has been relatively light - tons lighter than that. My money is still on extract burnage.

Holy crap. You are right, that IS a dark Hefeweizen. Looks like a Dunkelweizen really.

Can you describe the flavor of the beer at this point? Does it have a higher than expected caramel flavor, like an Amber ale? Are you 100% positive you got the right ingredients and not amber malt extract?

I guess I would agree with the opinion that you inadvertently caramelized some the extract when you added it to the boil. When you add either dry or liquid extract, take the pot off the heat completely first, and stir it in vigorously before returning it to the burner. I would not assume the banana would cause the color shift either.

Wow, that is darker than I was imagining.

I've done plenty of all-grain wheat's, and there is nothing in wheat that makes it darker than other beers, other than the amount & color of crystal or other malts used.

Most extracts (DME or LME) are made with a certain percentage of crystal malt already in there, and come in various colors (Extra Light, Light, Amber, Dark, etc.). Which brand & color of DME did you use? Any other malts used in your partial-mash recipe?

If the beer were oxidized, you would get a very distinct wet cardboard/newspaper kind of flavor from it.

I like the theories above: kettle carmelization of the extract sugars, either form direct heat during adding extract, or from the small boil volume.... and/or use of a 'amber wheat DME' or somesuch...

Color by itself should not have ruined the beer. Heck, I love a dark weizenbock, but its all about what you were hoping to create! The use of wheat by and of itself is not the issue here.

Good luck on the next batch!
--LexusChris

I am going to agree with Andycr in that it's probably oxidation. Are you noticing any flavors like sherry or carbboard/papery flavors as it darkens?

I had the same issue in my early extract days, It wasn't oxidation for me, it was adding the dme early and on high heat. I didn't much care for my wheat beers looking like that so I found an easy solution, I went all grain. Best decision I ever made.

Just came into say that your hefe is nearly as dark as my dunkelwiezen. I mean

Thanks fellas.

I actually haven't seen much choice w/resp/to wheat DME - either Briess or Munton. (I think one is .60/.40 and one is .70/.30 but I could be wrong). It was a partial mash, starting out with 2lbs. of 6-row and 2 lbs. of white wheat malt. I mashed and sparged, then added a 1-lb bag of wheat DME for the full boil. With 15 min remaining, I added a pound of honey, and a 3-pound bag of wheat DME.

My initial gravity was lower than expected, which troubled me until my final was lower than expected as well. It was light when I bottled it so I had high hopes. But even in the necks of the green bottles standing beside each other in the fridge, you can see that the wheat is way darker than my belgian. So I still believe it somehow darkened in the bottle, I just wish I knew how.

I will definitely be more careful with the DME in the future.

But I wonder if it is oxidation, too. When swirl the yeast with a little remaining beer at the end of transferring it to a glass, the first sip does give me a ester profile I am looking for in a hefe. But then the taste of the beer takes over. It's certainly not like a hefe should be. I don't want to say 'cardboard' per se, but maybe a more carmelized (e.g. astringent) taste, could be sherry-like. It would just be weird that I somehow oxidize one beer so badly, but not another.....

If it's caramelized then it's probably the extract like people are saying. If you drink an older barleywine they usually have a bit of oxidation which is acceptable for the style. I would pay attention to that flavor and see if it's the same in your beer.

Here is a thought - do you have a 2nd large pot? Boil your top off water, turn off the heat add teh DME to that. Main reason is to help the DME disolve in the heat. Then mix the 2 together, thus you never cook the dme, just the partial mash.

just a warning that if you don't have all of your extract in at the beginning of the boil then your IBU's/hop extraction will increase since there are less sugars in the boil. I believe some brewing software can account for this, however.

@ ACBrewer: I hadn't thought of that. I do use a slightly smaller pot to sparge in, and thats what I add to the initial (mashed) liquor before the boil. But I DO usually need to add some to get up to three gallons. Maybe I'll try that next... and that may help me rule in or rule out the 'scorched DME' theory.

@ Hopper5000: Thanks for the heads-up. I wonder if the fact that I'm doing a partial-boil 'evens it out' at all, since I will be diluting the more heavily-hopped wort anyhow. I hadn't really thought about it before, but I haven't noticed any of my beers being TOO bitter yet.
Also, I WISH I had an old barleywine at hand.....

IMO, the problem is most likely adding the wheat extract(dry or liquid) to the boil to soon, I used to have the exact same issue. I now take the kettle off the burner for just about 1 minute and add the extract in the final 10 minutes of the boil and bam....my hefeweizen looks like it is supposed too, a golden straw color. I do this with all my light colored beers now and it has made all the difference for me. Also chill the wort as fast as possible.

I started out with Mr. Beer extract kits and had this same problem. The 'carmalization' your tasting is probably what I used to call homebrew 'twang'. Just like Rustyduck and others have said it's most likely scorching of the LME when poured into a hot pot and it sinks down faster than you can stir. A number of Mr. B brewers adapted a method of reserving half the extract and adding it at flameout. The good news is, my beer did mellow out eventually and the twang all but disappeared...took about six months though.

Just wanted to update this thread in case anyone searches the topic....

I was finally successful on my 3rd stab at a german hefeweizen.....

The beer is actually lighter than it looks in the pic due to light refraction.
I was very happy with it. For those of you partial-mashing like I did, I would say run the wheat malt twice through the mill, use some rice hulls, and do a protein rest. I'd say its also worth getting an authentic liquid yeast (though underpitching without a starter seemed to be okay to get at the banana-clove taste I was after). I wouldn't change a thing for next time.

RE: the dark hefes, I do think it was the LME, DME or honey I used on the prior batches, where I wasn''t as careful in getting it off the burner. Still, I swear it got darker with age AFTER I bottled it.

All I have done are wheats (so far), and even going all grain has not got rid of the "darkening" you have mentioned... They go from a nice yellow (1.5 weeks primary, 2 weeks bottle conditioning) to a dark brownish color (after another 1.5-2 weeks in the bottle)... I have no off flavors, (oxidation) that I can taste... The only difference in flavor is that the hops tend to drop a bit with age... I too was wondering what causes this as I store the bottles in boxes (ie no light) and started thinking maybe it was the yeast turning... I too use a high floc yeast (Wyeast 1968) so I do not think that it is the suspension others have mentioned... I am going to try to pasteurize (after the initial 2 weeks in bottle) a few bottles next time and see if that helps to get rid of the darkening...

MadCnty said:

All I have done are wheats (so far), and even going all grain has not got rid of the "darkening" you have mentioned... They go from a nice yellow (1.5 weeks primary, 2 weeks bottle conditioning) to a dark brownish color (after another 1.5-2 weeks in the bottle)... I have no off flavors, (oxidation) that I can taste... The only difference in flavor is that the hops tend to drop a bit with age... I too was wondering what causes this as I store the bottles in boxes (ie no light) and started thinking maybe it was the yeast turning... I too use a high floc yeast (Wyeast 1968) so I do not think that it is the suspension others have mentioned... I am going to try to pasteurize (after the initial 2 weeks in bottle) a few bottles next time and see if that helps to get rid of the darkening...

Click to expand...

Any luck figuring this out? I have come across tons of discussions on message boards with pix and descriptions matching this same problem but nobody experiencing it ever seems to figure out what causes it

drlars, I know exactly what you are talking about. I brewed (2) hefeweizen and both looked perfect as I was bottling them. But then (2) weeks later when I opened the bottles, I swear a different beer came out then what I put it. It was like a night and day difference. I figured it was oxidation as well.