80 year old recipe help

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geoffey

geoffey

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So pretty cool thing happened last weekend: my sister-in-law approaches me and says "We were cleaning out some of my grandpa's stuff (he died many years ago) and we came across an old beer recipe from 1930. I'm wondering if you'd be willing to make it for me so I can hand it out to my family as a Christmas gift this year?" Sounds like fun to me! Not knowing exactly what to expect I immediately say I'll do it, so she goes out and grabs the recipe. Nothing fancy or complicated, and the process looks a little different, but basically a really simple extract recipe.

So thought this would be fun to share and see if anyone wants to give me some ideas on how to tweak this for modern ingredients. I'm not going to make a hope tea and boil for 2.5 hours per the recipe and I'm not going to include as much cane sugar as the recipe calls for. So that being said does anyone want to chime in with how to modernize this? Keep in mind her family are not big craft beer afficiandos, so I'll need to keep it to a fairly "drinkable" ale, maybe shoot for something similar to or milder than Summit EPA since that's local. (also, I'll probably scale it down to a 2.5 gallon batch and plan on keeping it an extract recipe).

View attachment 1930 Recipe 2.pdf
 
I'm not able to see the recipe. One thought though. Obviously some ingredients may need to be changed out of necessity because of what is or isn't available, but I would think you should be careful to keep it as close as possible to the original. Sounds like she's not just asking for a batch of beer, but for a batch of her grandfathers beer.
 
Yeah I think you will be cheating her quite a bit with just the simple changes you've decided on already. Make the hop tea, boil the length of time is says, and put all that cane sugar in there. At the very worst even if the beer isn't your favorite, you will have a window into the homebrewing past.
 
I hear what you are getting at, but she did also tell me to tweak it as I deem necessary. ImageUploadedByHome Brew1399404108.824853.jpg




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I do like your take on this to brew it that way to see what it's like from a historic perspective. In that case I would likely still adjust the hops to make up for what is likely a huge difference in quality and alpha acids available now compared to 80 years ago.


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Yeah I agree with Blitzkrieg. Don't short cut it. To me keeping it as original as possible is what counts. Who cares if it takes you an extra few hours or ends up tasting like Colt .45. You will get the chance to brew a part of the past and give someone the chance to give an awesome present.

Besides if you don't brew it I will.
 
Let's see here...

"Boil 2 oz of hops in 2.5 gallons of water for 2 hours. Boil 2.5 gallons more of water, adding 1.5 pounds of cane sugar. (Be sure it is cane sugar.) Add 2.5 pounds of or 1 quart malt extract. Mix all together and boil for 20 minutes. Put in open vessel and when half cold add 1 package of gelatine powder. When luke-warm, add 1.5 cakes of Fleishmann's yeast. Let it ferment from 36 to 50 hours, skimming every morning and night clean off all the froth when skimming. When done or fermented from 36 to 50 hours bottle and cork. Let it stand for 2 weeks. This makes beer of about 6-8% alcohol."

The biggest problem with this recipe is the yeast. Did Fleischmann ever make a beer yeast, or did they only ever make bread yeast? My research shows that they didn't ever foray into beer yeast, so this recipe calls for bread yeast, which is going to make the beer taste really nasty. I definitely would substitute a nice clean yeast like US-05 instead of the bread yeast. It won't taste the same by a long shot, but at least you guys will drink more than one sip of it. Your grandpa would greatly appreciate the lack of horrendous off-flavors.

It doesn't specify what type of hops or malt extract, so you'll have to pick some pretty generic hops and extract. Maybe go with some Falconer's Flight (since that's a bunch of different hops added together) and some amber DME.

Everything else looks do-able. The skimming morning and night isn't really necessary anymore since you'd have yeast that are actually designed for beer making, but if you want to skim twice a day in an open fermentor, be my guest.

One more amusing thing I found in my Googling:
fleischman-yeast-advertisement-otrcat.com.jpg
 
LandoLincoln said:
Let's see here...

"Boil 2 oz of hops in 2.5 gallons of water for 2 hours. Boil 2.5 gallons more of water, adding 1.5 pounds of cane sugar. (Be sure it is cane sugar.) Add 2.5 pounds of or 1 quart malt extract. Mix all together and boil for 20 minutes. Put in open vessel and when half cold add 1 package of gelatine powder. When luke-warm, add 1.5 cakes of Fleishmann's yeast. Let it ferment from 36 to 50 hours, skimming every morning and night clean off all the froth when skimming. When done or fermented from 36 to 50 hours bottle and cork. Let it stand for 2 weeks. This makes beer of about 6-8% alcohol."

The biggest problem with this recipe is the yeast. Did Fleischmann ever make a beer yeast, or did they only ever make bread yeast? My research shows that they didn't ever foray into beer yeast, so this recipe calls for bread yeast, which is going to make the beer taste really nasty. I definitely would substitute a nice clean yeast like US-05 instead of the bread yeast. It won't taste the same by a long shot, but at least you guys will drink more than one sip of it. Your grandpa would greatly appreciate the lack of horrendous off-flavors.

It doesn't specify what type of hops or malt extract, so you'll have to pick some pretty generic hops and extract. Maybe go with some Falconer's Flight (since that's a bunch of different hops added together) and some amber DME.

Everything else looks do-able. The skimming morning and night isn't really necessary anymore since you'd have yeast that are actually designed for beer making, but if you want to skim twice a day in an open fermentor, be my guest.

One more amusing thing I found in my Googling:
fleischman-yeast-advertisement-otrcat.com.jpg
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that give you massive diarrhea for a while until you're digestive system got used to it?
 
You do realize, that prohibition was in effect until 1933, right? I don't remember which breweries sold yeast and malt extract, with specific instructions " Do not boil water and stir in the malt syrup, and, by adding yeast, you will produce an alcoholic beer, which is against the law". That may have been the source of brewing yeast and malt syrup.
 
MindenMan said:
You do realize, that prohibition was in effect until 1933, right? I don't remember which breweries sold yeast and malt extract, with specific instructions " Do not boil water and stir in the malt syrup, and, by adding yeast, you will produce an alcoholic beer, which is against the law". That may have been the source of brewing yeast and malt syrup.
Click to expand...


That's an interesting take. But the recipe does specifically call for fleischmamns yeast so I'm guessing that's what was used. I agree with previous poster on using us05


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Hopped malt extract (and possibly unhopped) was sold for "baking" I believe it was Pabst, other breweries survived prohibition by making near-beer. Who knows what kind of yeast was available, even Flieschmanns may have been a different strain than what it is now. I have experience making beer with bread yeast, and it's really hit-or-miss. I've had good to great results with store brand yeasts (food lion and kroger) but average results with Flieschmanns. I also tried Red Star Platinum, which had a weird off-flavor which actually aged out completely and turned into a good beer. My point is this: you never know with bakers yeast, and that is the one amendment I would make to the recipe just to increase the odds of having a drinkable beer for your family to remember their kin with
 
Why not do both? Instead of 2.5 gallons, do a 1 gallon recipe that is strictly with the recipe and then do a modern day variant of what you think the recipe 'should' be. This would be a good way to comparing the past with the present.


I love these threads about (very) old school brewing.
 
If you're going to change the yeast, don't go with a clean yeast. You want something that is a little more rustic.

Also, I didn't read carefully, but would you assume the hops are whole or even fresh?
 
MindenMan said:
You do realize, that prohibition was in effect until 1933, right? I don't remember which breweries sold yeast and malt extract, with specific instructions " Do not boil water and stir in the malt syrup, and, by adding yeast, you will produce an alcoholic beer, which is against the law". That may have been the source of brewing yeast and malt syrup.
Click to expand...

That's true, but malt extract was a common baking ingredient at the time, and it was not illegal to sell it during the era of Prohibition.

Brewer's yeast, however, was not a common baking ingredient and breweries didn't sell it to homebrewers. I'm not sure if it was illegal to sell brewer's yeast during Prohibition, but it may as well have been, since it would have been nigh impossible to get your hands on. Beer yeast has come a heck of a long way since then.
 
Really fascinating!

Anyone else wondering how this is 6-8% alcohol, as the recipe says? If 1.5lb of sugar and 2.5lb of malt extract are the only fermentabls in 5+ gallons, it's gonna be something more like 3%. 80 year old exaggeration? :D
 
I remember mom using that malt extract from the store when I was a little kid. Some 55 years ago now. About the size of a Giant Eagle salsa jar. And the bread yeast part was definitely hit or miss flavor-wise. I think some research into the kind of hops that were most commonly available 80 years ago would be wise. He'd most likely used whatever kind of hops that were easiest to get. Most likely from a farmer that grew them?? Or something like the hops that grew wild all over Germany? something like that? Food for thought anyway...
 
That is pretty much the recipe that I first tried years ago including the yeast. I recall 5 lbs. sugar of sugar for 5 to 6 gallons. I'm thinking 2 cans of extract too. That was all word of mouth back then, 40 years ago. It's been nearly that long since I've brewed it too so that should speak of the quality. Blue Ribbon Malt.
 
Bringing back up this old thread, because I finally brewed this recipe up today. Here's what I did:

I brewed up two 1 gallon batches. The first one followed the original recipe pretty closely. I used .2oz of Cluster and made the hop tea (I boiled it for just an hour instead of two - figured this would be good enough for whatever hop utilization i'd get from it. Then added the malt extract and cane sugar additions per the recipe and boiled for 20 minutes. Instead of using gelatine I just added irish moss to the boil. I'll add one packet of Fleschmann's bread yeast to this.

The second 1 gallon batch followed the first one, but I added more LME to boost the ABV to 6% (which I figured to shoot for since the comments say the beer should end up at 6-8%). I'll pitch US05 into this one.

Obviously the 2nd one will be more drinkable, but it will sure be fun to see how these two compare! My plan is to make a 2-3 gallon batch of this for my sister in law for her to give out bottles of at Christmas to her side of the family. Guessing I'll tweak the 2nd version a little once she and my brother have a chance to try it and comment on what they like/dislike. Will try to keep some aspect of the hop tea, some aspect of the combination of sugar/malt extract for fermentables, but I doubt I'll keep the Fleshmann's yeast and will probably go for another 6% beer. Can't see this turing out very good at more than that.

Will update this thread with the results!
 
Here's my interpretation on that recipe. First we know the malt extract to sugar proportion. It's 62.5% malt, 37.5% sugar. That already looks like a modern American style. Obviously the pure sugar is a substitute for rice or corn. The extract will most likely be very light. While hops aren't specified, they'll most certainly be lower alpha acid so a 3-4% AAU variety would probably be appropriate. We know there are two ounces and its safe to say they'll be whole hops. If using pellets back the quantity off about 20% so somewhere around 1.5 to 1.625 ounces. It may actually still come out fairly hoppy since there will be low maltiness. A lack of malt during the boiling of the hops may reduce their extraction though so it is looking more and more like a modern American style beer but one that is well hopped for the style. We know that it states to boil two and a half gallons for the hops and two and a half for the rest. We also know that smaller batch boils have higher evaporation rates and this is a long amount of time. The extract boil isn't losing much volume over only 20 minutes but the hop boil still lose a considerable amount. It's probably a good estimate that this will end up with around 3.5-4 gallons after boil. 6-8% seems quite high. 3.5-4% seems more plausible. The yeast is certainly a compromise but it was what was available. A clean ale yeast would be preferable. This ends up being closest to a bitter cream ale. I'll bet it's not too bad provided the bread yeast isn't used.
 
Great stuff geoffey!

Are you also going to extend the fermentation process on your heavy #2 batch? What's the date for cracking the first bottle from batch 1?


:tank:
 
I did both batches yesterday, so I assume they will be ready around the same time in around four weeks. Looks like that Fleshmanns bread yeast just tore through the 3% ABV batch and is starting to settle out already. Never done one gallon batches so maybe these will be ready sooner?


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ImageUploadedByHome Brew1409833489.426002.jpg

Here's a picture of the two batches fermenting. The one on the left is the "authentic" version. As I mentioned previously, that batch is already looking like it is done. The other batch is still plugging along.


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This is super cool. I cannot wait to hear more about this, as I've always wanted to brew an authentic heritage brew myself. Out of curiosity, do you know where you sister-in-law's grandfather was living at the time he wrote the recipe? It may help you pinpoint what kind of hops or extract were available to him back in the day.
 
That is really cool. And it's classic that it was written on interoffice memo letterhead.

There were so many loopholes written into the Volstead Acf that I'm sure selling yeast was not illegal. But using baking yeast was not uncommon. That's how my neighbor's father homebrewed. He did it until he had a batch of bottle bombs and then his mom put a stop to it.

I'm interested in how the original turns out.
 
geoffey said:
View attachment 221941
The one on the left is the "authentic" version. As I mentioned previously, that batch is already looking like it is done.
Click to expand...

Looking done is right! Amazing. Are you going to let it clarify or are you bottling soon?

:mug:

These photos are great. Maybe you can include them in a xmas card for your family as a tribute to this recipe. When the beer is done, they can have the memories.
 
Even using bread yeast I don't think it would turn out all that bad. Plenty of people in here using flieschmanns yeast for JOAM with good results. I don't see why it wouldn't be quite feasible to wind up with a nice brew from it. Looking forward to seeing how this one turns out.


Sent from somewhere to someone
 
Check out how clear both of these have dropped out. ImageUploadedByHome Brew1410617567.283416.jpg

It might be tough to see but the one made with bread yeast is extremely clear, perhaps my clearest beer ever made. Look at the bottom of that jig below the label to get a good idea of how clear this is. It's like apple juice. And neither of these have been cold crashed.

Will be testing these today and perhaps bottling if they seem ready. Will report back on tasting notes and gravity reading.


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FG of the "authentic" version came in at 1.002! It has a very skunky/Heiniken aroma. Taste of the hydrometer sample was mostly unpleasant. Sharp fruity and bready notes, green/vegetal taste from the hops I think. Will see how this mellows out while carbing.

Will bottle the other version tonight.


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It's pretty cool to see someone's recipe from that time period.

As was already mentioned, the malt was probably Blue Ribbon Malt. The recipe is simply brewing with a hop boil, sugar adjunct, UME, and yeast. Of course, boiling for 2 hours only adds 5% more bitterness to the 95% bitterness after one hour. The actual style is "BEER", and I'll guess it made it just fine. Guess why those light fizzy lagers tasted so good after prohibition?
 
geoffey said:
FG of the "authentic" version came in at 1.002! It has a very skunky/Heiniken aroma. Taste of the hydrometer sample was mostly unpleasant. Sharp fruity and bready notes, green/vegetal taste from the hops I think. Will see how this mellows out while carbing.

Will bottle the other version tonight.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the vegetal comes from boiling the hops in water for two hours instead of water with extract.
 
I quite like bakers yeast, I grew up with drinks made with it. It's a tad rustic, bready, yeasty, and you often get banana style funk. It ferments viciously too!
 
The "revised version" came in at 1.009 and surprisingly tasted a little sour/cidery. I may need to re-do this experiment and use some temperature control. I think what happened here is my fermentation temps got away from me. Will be doing taste tests in a couple weeks.


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Well I'm sorry to report that both batches just came out undrinkable.

ImageUploadedByHome Brew1412304639.836104.jpg

Just overall nasty tasting. A little sour, a little rancid almost. I'm blaming this partly on the hop tea and partly on lack of temp control. Temps probably got into upper 70s during fermentation.

I'll need to still prepare a batch for my sister-in-law, so I need to make some changes. Am thinking of nixing the "hop tea" completely, using us05 or perhaps something a little more rustic, and keeping a portion of the fermentables as cane sugar.




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Bummer. I was afraid this would be the outcome, though. You were basically brewing "prison beer". Good luck with the updated version. You can always say it was "based on an 80-year old recipe".
 
If you modify the recipe a bit I'm sure you can get something that is in the spirit of the recipe but is palatable. I'd start with doing a full volume boil and even then limit it to 60-90 minutes total. Add the hops to the boil as you normally would. I'd also substitute the cane sugar for corn sugar or corn syrup. Use a neutral ale yeast. I think that would be just fine. Remember during prohibition they were trying to get alcohol. Flavor would be just been a bonus.
 

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