PissyFingers
Well-Known Member
Excuse my ignorance but is Whitelabs yeast nutrient "DAP"?
I know it's been a while but this thread needs to be revived. I made two batches of this today. The light and the deep amber. Both turned out fantastic. I make a lot of Belgians and the sugar costs always kill it for me. I'm glad that with about 20 min of work I can make my own. I'm using the light in a tripel I'm brewing this afternoon. Thank you OP for figuring this out.
Dude how did you get that clarity? Mine always crystalized upon cooling
Dude how did you get that clarity? Mine always crystalized upon cooling
This looks great, and I'm jealous of that light version. I have never gotten that light of a color or been able to do this with 20 minutes of work. At a minimum it takes an hour to get to the light color temp for me.
Would you mind expanding on your process? What type of stove and at what heat setting are you at? Does it realistically only take 20 minutes to get the sugar to an initial temp of 250-260F? Do you pour in the full volume of water and reheat to soft ball (240F) or do you only put in enough water to drop the temp to 240F?
Sorry to bombard you with these Qs, but your final product looks better than anything I've done in 4 attempts, so I figure I must be doing something wrong.
Excuse my ignorance but is Whitelabs yeast nutrient "DAP"?
I tried the 280 version a few years ago but didn't have any DAP so used citric acid. It turned out nice but significantly darker than the pictures I have seen from others on here. It also has a very slight citrus hint which maybe from the citric acid or just normal. I would like to try make it again but I still don't have any DAP. Could I use something else? Lactic acid maybe and how much?
Thanks.
The DAP is the key for the Maillard reaction and provides a lot of the flavor. Using citric acid is a different process. 1lb bags of DAP are cheap on Amazon.
I've got to be doing something wrong. I was excited to try the sugar #5 (twice brought to 290F) to be used in a quad. I commented in the past about how every time I make this it always comes out darker than the temp would indicate. I have used a gas stove and electric (electric this time), and never above Med (heat setting 4 out of 10).
This time when the temp had reached 290F the first time it was delicious upon taste test although about the color of snickasaurus' 300F example. I was willing to live with that since this is going to be the darkening ingredient in my quad. But once I did the water addition and brought the temp back to 290 (287F on my calibrated thermometer) it turned jet black, smelled a bit charred and had a slightly sweet flavor and hints of charcoal. All of the nuance from the original tasting at 290F were gone completely and there is no raisin/prune or coffee as there was before. Pic is provided to show just how black this stuff got (and a weird consistency as it went from gummy at 270F to runny at 290F).
Is it supposed to tasted blackened, and, once aged in a big beer mellows out or do I need to try again or just go buy some D2? I love the concept of doing this to make something from scratch as well as save a little in the process, but this is now my 5th time making it (at varying colors) and it has never come out as it should.
I've got to be doing something wrong. I was excited to try the sugar #5 (twice brought to 290F) to be used in a quad. I commented in the past about how every time I make this it always comes out darker than the temp would indicate. I have used a gas stove and electric (electric this time), and never above Med (heat setting 4 out of 10).
This time when the temp had reached 290F the first time it was delicious upon taste test although about the color of snickasaurus' 300F example. I was willing to live with that since this is going to be the darkening ingredient in my quad. But once I did the water addition and brought the temp back to 290 (287F on my calibrated thermometer) it turned jet black, smelled a bit charred and had a slightly sweet flavor and hints of charcoal. All of the nuance from the original tasting at 290F were gone completely and there is no raisin/prune or coffee as there was before. Pic is provided to show just how black this stuff got (and a weird consistency as it went from gummy at 270F to runny at 290F).
Is it supposed to tasted blackened, and, once aged in a big beer mellows out or do I need to try again or just go buy some D2? I love the concept of doing this to make something from scratch as well as save a little in the process, but this is now my 5th time making it (at varying colors) and it has never come out as it should.
Third, time your temperature targets not by temperature but by color. When your sugar reaches the color you want, cool it with water. I've done this pretty successfully doing similar caramel syrups for coffee and pancakes when I'm not using DAP and thus can't rely on the temperatures given here.
As for the blackened syrup, you can cut it with something lighter for less harshness and use it in coffee, or it might make a nice addition to a big, bad RIS (I've done it once and would recommend it).
I think your third suggestion is how I will go about this next time and focus on color only.
I love your idea of using this is a big RIS, but unfortunately I only have 2 carboys for aging and they are both in use. What kind of shelf life are we talking with this overdone syrup? And secondly, I had a a taste of it again last night and it has this sharp tang to it, almost like vinegar, when it first hits your tongue; then there is a little charcoal and sweetness. Is this similar to your experience when you added it to an RIS? I'd hate to make such a big beer and hope for the best and have it turn out acrid or twang-y (is that a word)?
Thanks for the advice, and I think I'll go down to my LHBS and pick up some D-180 for the quad I'm making.
Don't let it get hard!
At the very end, when it's all done, add some water so it remains a (thick) syrup.
Doh of course. Why didn't I think of that. Did this and the flavor was wonderful and it did great things for my beer (biggest crowd pleaser of ANY beer I've made) but it was so incredibly sticky and dealing with it was very aggravating. Will add water next time.
Eyeballing a recipe for a dark beer using this stuff unlike the caramel amber I did last time for a 5 gallon batch:
-Enough 2-row to hit 1.060 OG or so.
-Pound of Deep Amber caramel.
-Half pound of carared.
-Half pound of carabrown malt (light brown malt, not crystal malt despite its stupid name, tastes like biscuit malt on steroids).
-Half pound of chocolate malt.
-Enough midnight wheat to turn it black.
Northern Brewer for hops? Chinook? 35 IBUs or so with enough at flameout to give it a touch of pine on the aftertaste.
No, it's not supposed to taste blackened.
Possible problems here:
Elevation might affect cooking sugar like it does baking (unlikely).
Your thermometer might be off-calibration at above boiling temperatures.
Hello,
I want to brew a westy 12 and as i can't find d-180 candi syrup here i decided to cook mine. What is the most similar recipe to d-180? Will i have the same taste result? Can i use another yeast nutrient than DAP?
Thanks
Sounds like your thermometer might be a little off. At 240 you should be at the soft ball stage, but it sounds like you were closer to hard ball, which happens around 260, or even soft crack, which is around 275. For the cooling stage i slowly pour in the prescribed amount of water and it always takes it well below 240, so i keep heating to bring it back to 240, but usually stop around 220 or so otherwise it gets too thick. Also, it will thicken up quite a bit as it cools. Sounds to me like your first attemp was about right.
Honestly, i don't think it needs to be thickened up after cooling. I don't know if you've ever used any of the commercial candi syrups, but they are not very thick at all.
I think thickening to soft ball is useful for storage, but if I were making my candi side-by-side with the beer I was making it for I'd probably (slowly) pour in hot wort to cool and dilute it and then pour it straight into the kettle. You've already reached your desired color and flavor, and it's just going to get diluted in the wort anyway, so thickening and cooling before dissolving and diluting it in the hot wort just seems like unnecessary effort.
+1^ and +1 ^^ No point in concentrating when you dump it into a 6 gallon kettle with wort (mostly water).
I too prefer the syrup to be quite liquid when pouring in. But for a different reason.
I always add my sugar syrups when (primary) fermentation has slowed down, at around 2/3 done. I pour it into the bucket through the grommet hole (grommet removed) using a 3" funnel with an 8" piece of hose attached to the spout. I pour in a steady stream keeping about an inch or 2 of syrup in the funnel, so it won't gurgle and pull air in, oxidizing the beer.
This is an interesting idea. I assume you're using a pretty small hose and funnel to fit in the grommet hole? I want to say I'd like to do this, but I also know myself and recognize that I'm terrible at monitoring fermentation so I'd probably forget to add the sugar entirely...
After taking the rubber grommet out, the opening is wide enough for a 3/8" OD vinyl tube, perhaps a little wider. As long as there is a little gap for air to escape, it works fine. I use a piece of 1/2" OD tubing as an adapter to connect the funnel end and the tube. Vinyl hose of different diameters make great adapters one fitting into another rather tightly.
With the last series of Belgian IPAs the fermentation was so fast, done in 36 hours, I missed the sugar addition window on one, although I'm sure the yeast would have restarted if I had added it. I just left that one as is, but do miss the added flavor. The next one right after went fast too, but I was prepared. Added the thinnish syrup at 1.030, 24 hours in.
You really should try using wort (1.060-1.080) instead of water when making the syrup. It adds an amazing flavor and dimension. I also noticed that stirring is not wanted, although I scrape the sides of the pot 2 or 3 times during those 30-40 minutes to bring the layer of sugar crystals that forms there back to the party. Adding small amounts of water periodically (1 tablespoon) during the simmer allow you to extend the maillard process without raising the temps (and color) beyond your target.
Using tubing as adapters is definitely part of my game, but I use silicone because it's easier to get silicone tubing that I trust in China than vinyl. Unfortunately, silicone tubing is quite flexible so it often allows air in where you attach different sizes in series - this is causing oxidation issues in my bottling setup that I need to work on, and has made siphoning impossible in one case.
I read your comments about using wort instead of water and I'm totally down with it: I love reducing some wort on the side during the boil of a big beer that could use the extra flavor. At the same time, my only source of quick-and-easy wort (since I don't make my candi on brewday so I can't just pull it from the kettle) is baker's DME. I might try it anyway, but it's not the greatest stuff in the world.
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