Single Pump, Single PID E-HERMS

I already posted this in the "Show us your brew sculpture" thread but I thought it would be appropriate to put it here also.

I know these aren't the best pics, but I just wanted to post some to show my new setup I just finished building. When I was doing my research I could hardly find a setup like it (maybe I just didn't look hard enough). I have to give credit though to High Gravity Brewing for the piping configuration. Their HERMS setup was really the only one I could find using a single pump. I brewed with this recently and I have to say I am very happy with how it performed. I hope that this shows anyone who cares that you can configure a setup with a single pump and it will work.

Well, thanks for the pics, but can you break down the brew day?

Sure, I guess I should have thought of that. I fill the HLT with cold water and I also go ahead and fill the mash tun with the amount of strike water I will need. I have the valve on the output of the HLT closed and I open the valve on the output of the MLT. I set the PID at whatever I want the mash temp to be and I begin heating and recirculating the strike water from the mash tun thru the HERMS coil at the same time. By going ahead and filling the MLT up with the amount of strike water I will need and also having the HLT full, I do not have to add any more water to the HLT during the day. Once I hit my set point on the recirculating MLT water, I dough in. Before I do this though, I kill the pump for just a few minutes until I get the grain completely mixed in. Then I turn the pump back on and I constantly recirculate throughout the entire mash. Once the mash is over, I like to do a mash out. I change the setpoint on the PID to 168 or so and continue to recirculate the runnings thru the HERMS coil. Once Ive completed my mash out, I disconnect the hose from the MLT and direct it into the Boil Kettle. I cap off the open end of the tee that I just exposed by doing this and then I open the valve on the output of the HLT. I like to fly sparge, so at this point I begin pumping water from the HLT thru the HERMS coil and then over onto the top of the grain bed in the MLT. I do not change any of the piping configuration throughout all of this, the only change that is made is disconnecting the output from the MLT once I start collecting my runnings. After all of this, the brew day is just the same as any other. That seems like a lot, does that all make sense?

Also, I forgot to mention that the valve coming out of the tee just before the input to the HERMS coil is mostly for purging the pump. This works wonders, before I added this, it was hard to get the pump working the way it should.

Your explanation didn't make any sense to me, but then I saw the hose going behind the right keggle. Do you boil outside?

Im sorry, yeah, I kinda have a double post going on here, I explained some of this over in the other forum. The boil kettle sits just to the left, out of sight in the pic.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/show-us-your-sculpture-brew-rig-46578/index341.html

That's pretty much what I do, but I have a pump recircing the HLT. How long does it take for your mash to get to your desired mash temp after you dough in, assuming the temps drop when you add the grain? Do you take temps of the actual mash during your mash?

I really didn't have any heat loss at dough in. I was kinda doing other stuff as I was waiting for my water to heat up, so I don't have an exact time frame. I don't think it took over 45 mins though to get from around 65 degrees to 150, though.


Should be doing something else

I really didn't monitor the actual mash temp, because from a lot that I've read that seems to be irrelevant. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong. I feel like if the output of the HERMS is good, that's ok with me.


Should be doing something else

I will add that my temp did drift a little high just a few times though during the mash (I was going for 150 degrees and it got as high as 152 a couple of times). I wasn't too terribly concerned with it though. I am pretty sure this would have to do with the fact the the HLT water is not agitated. If I grow weary of this, I may come up with a solution, but for now it seems good enough.


Should be doing something else

ellerbrew said:

I really didn't have any heat loss at dough in.

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Unless your dry grain is at mash temp when you dough in, you will bring the temp down. Beersmith or any on line calculator will tell you pretty accurately how much the temp will drop after you dough in. Next time you dough in, stick a thermometer in the mash and see what it is. It will be lower than the water temp before you doughed in.

ellerbrew said:

I really didn't monitor the actual mash temp, because from a lot that I've read that seems to be irrelevant.

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I don't think that way. The mash temp is all you really care about. How you get there is irrelevant. I recommend you monitor the mash temp at the outlet of the MT during your next mash to see what it does. The mash temp does not mirror the HLT temp. There's a lag, but you would not know this unless you monitored the MT and HLT temps.

ellerbrew said:

I will add that my temp did drift a little high just a few times though during the mash (I was going for 150 degrees and it got as high as 152 a couple of times). I wasn't too terribly concerned with it though. I am pretty sure this would have to do with the fact the the HLT water is not agitated. If I grow weary of this, I may come up with a solution, but for now it seems good enough.


Should be doing something else

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If you don't want to buy another pump to recirc your HLT, you could build a stirrer. I bet if you built one with a big enough motor and impeller it will mix better than a pump.

How could you possibly say that the wort coming out of the coil in the HLT is not related to mash temp?


Should be doing something else

ellerbrew said:

How could you possibly say that the wort coming out of the coil in the HLT is not related to mash temp?

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Who said that?

Well what would be the point of measuring the wort coming out of the outlet of the mash tun, what would I do with this information?


Should be doing something else

Set up cascade control with two PID loops?


Should be doing something else

The HERMS is the mash, an extension of it


Should be doing something else

now look what you did, Kevink, you killed the thread.