Johnson A419 temp controller issues

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Daniel82

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I have recieved my new temp controller for fermenting in my chest freezer. I plugged it in and set the set point and everything based of suggestions I found on this site. It was set for 62 with a differential of 1. The compresser turns on the cool it to that temp and turns off at 61 or 60 but it continues to cool the freezer till about 43 degrees and it maintains that temp and wont rise or stay anywhere near my set point. Granted it is an empty freezer but the temp should be a little more regulated than it is. Can someone tell me what my problem is?
 
I have recieved my new temp controller for fermenting in my chest freezer. I plugged it in and set the set point and everything based of suggestions I found on this site. It was set for 62 with a differential of 1. The compresser turns on the cool it to that temp and turns off at 61 or 60 but it continues to cool the freezer till about 43 degrees and it maintains that temp and wont rise or stay anywhere near my set point. Granted it is an empty freezer but the temp should be a little more regulated than it is. Can someone tell me what my problem is?

The problem is that when the compressor is running, the evaporator coils in the walls of the freezer get very cold, but the air in the freezer takes much longer to cool. By the time that the air is cool enough to trigger the controller, the inside walls of the freezer are at zero or below. So, the air continues to cool even though the compressor is off. Try placing the controller probe near the bottom of the freezer, but not touching the walls. The air will be coldest near the floor of the freezer. It may take several hours or more for the temperature to stabilize.
 
put a glass of water in there (or something) and put your temp probe in the water
 
I find it hard to believe that the coils are so efficient that they can cool the space another 20 degrees even after it cuts off. I think it is more likely the jumper settings are wrong.

Did you set the jumpers on your temp controller correctly?

You want "cooling mode, cut-out at setpoint".



Also just to be sure, this fridge is not sitting out in an unconditioned space in the dead of winter, is it?
 
I find it hard to believe that the coils are so efficient that they can cool the space another 20 degrees even after it cuts off. I think it is more likely the jumper settings are wrong.

Did you set the jumpers on your temp controller correctly?

You want "cooling mode, cut-out at setpoint".



Also just to be sure, this fridge is not sitting out in an unconditioned space in the dead of winter, is it?

It's easy to see what mode the controller is in as there is a symbol for heating or cooling on the display. I think it's snowflake for cooling and a flame for heating. Most of the pre-wired controllers arrive set up in the cooling mode.

It's a freezer and the evaporator coils certainly are capable of cooling to zero and below, and especially so on the initial start up cycle. I would think that if left running for several hours that the temperature swing would be greatly reduced. Putting some kegs in the freezer would also help a lot, but they will also require some time to cool and stabilize.

Actually, I think he would want the compressor to cut-in at the set point and cut-out at the set point minus the differential for cooling. IOW, the compressor should turn on with a rise in temperature.
 
No its in cooling it shows the snowflake on the display. I didnt set any of the jumpers as I assumed it was pre-wired for the way I indtended to use it. The temp is rising very slowly like 1-2 degrees an hour its now at 53 with my set point at 61. I'm not sure how easy it is for chest freezers to stay at a temp that high. Its in a storage room in my appt. on the third floor so its not that the temp around it is freezing (I live in MS anyway and nothing freezes here).

I need to look more into the cut-in and cut-out setting. I am about to leave the house for a few hours and if it hasnt regulated more when I get back I may open it up and check to see if it is set correctly.

Thanks for the help guys I was hoping to get this solved by tomorrow because I wanted to brew a new batch and test it out.
 
No its in cooling it shows the snowflake on the display. I didnt set any of the jumpers as I assumed it was pre-wired for the way I indtended to use it. The temp is rising very slowly like 1-2 degrees an hour its now at 53 with my set point at 61. I'm not sure how easy it is for chest freezers to stay at a temp that high. Its in a storage room in my appt. on the third floor so its not that the temp around it is freezing (I live in MS anyway and nothing freezes here).

I need to look more into the cut-in and cut-out setting. I am about to leave the house for a few hours and if it hasnt regulated more when I get back I may open it up and check to see if it is set correctly.

Thanks for the help guys I was hoping to get this solved by tomorrow because I wanted to brew a new batch and test it out.

The freezer just needs time to stabilize. It should settle down by morning. Keep in mind that a freezer does not have a fan to circulate the air inside like most refrigerators do. You can install a fan to circulate the air which is what I have done. Once you get the temp to stabilize, you might consider increasing the differential to something like 3-5 degrees. This will cycle the compressor less frequently for less wear and tear. The air temp in the freezer may fluctuate more, but that is of little concern as the large thermal mass of a keg of beer will only change temperature very slowly and it will settle in at a very stable average temperature. You can check this by pouring a beer and measuring it's temperature. It's no problem for a chest freezer to operate at higher temperatures. The compressor isn't working nearly as much as if it were maintaining sub zero temps.
 
oops.. I meant to say the temp probe of his thermometer, not the controlers temp probe. ( drinking and posting again )

More than a few people actually do put the probe in a container of water, but it's just not the way I would do it and I don't think there is an advantage to do it that way. I tried it myself long ago and it did not work well for me. One thing that does work is to wrap the thermometer probe in something like a wash cloth. This insulates it from direct contact with the air and sort of buffers the response. I often drink while posting and it's probably obvious. After all, this is a beer forum damn it.:D
 
This may be a stupid question but will taping the temp probe to my fermenting bucket pick up the temps the same as taping it to my glass carboy? Assuming its insulated against the side.
 
This may be a stupid question but will taping the temp probe to my fermenting bucket pick up the temps the same as taping it to my glass carboy? Assuming its insulated against the side.

It's not a stupid question at all. The answer is yes it will work the same way. I do it with both buckets and carboys. I bungee mine to the carboys and with the buckets, simply wedge it under the wire handle.
 
Thanks man. I'm excited about being able to control my temps now. Brewing beer in Mississippi can be a pain in the ass.
 
Thanks man. I'm excited about being able to control my temps now. Brewing beer in Mississippi can be a pain in the ass.

IMO, you are on the right path and controlling fermentation temperatures is the key to making better home brew. That's the reason I have five refrigerators/freezers dedicated to home brew.
 
Haha nice. I live in an appt. now so room is short. Once I have a garage I plan on working craigslist pretty hard to pick up some more cheap fridge/freezers. The one I'm using now for fermentation is about an 8ish cu. ft. freezer I picked up for $50 from some people twenty minutes from where I live. It's in great shape. Just gotta find people who are moving and can't take everything with them.
 
I am looking to buy this controller, did it ever fix itself? If not what did you have to do? Thanks.

Apparently, there was nothing at all wrong with the controller. The freezer simply required some additional time for the temperature to stabilize. I've been using a Johnson A419 controller for many years with zero problems.
 
I'm deadset on picking this device up. Got a few quick questions for those who know the ins and outs.

Is it easy to switch from heating to cooling mode?

I want to use it on heating mode with a Fermwrap to warm a glass carboy from 65 degrees where it has stabilized to room temp, up to 68 degrees, and then to hold it there. Does anybody see any potential issues with that? Weird temperature swings? It seems like it should be fairly straightforward, but I tend to confuse myself the more I think about these things.

Also, related to that last question, would a thermowell for reading the dead center of the beer be nice to have? Absolutely necessary? Absolutely unnecessary?

Thanks!
 
In order to switch between heating and cooling mode, you have to open it up and move a jumper. It's not hard, but you do need a screwdriver.


If I were using a fermwrap I wouldn't put the probe on the side, since that is where the fermwrap is. I guess a thermowell might work, but not sure how well the Johnson probe will fit in one. Personally, I use one of those heating mats for incubating plants to warm my fermenter when necessary. As I recall I got one for something like $30 and it came with a temperature controller and probe.
 
I'm deadset on picking this device up. Got a few quick questions for those who know the ins and outs.

Is it easy to switch from heating to cooling mode?

I want to use it on heating mode with a Fermwrap to warm a glass carboy from 65 degrees where it has stabilized to room temp, up to 68 degrees, and then to hold it there. Does anybody see any potential issues with that? Weird temperature swings? It seems like it should be fairly straightforward, but I tend to confuse myself the more I think about these things.

Also, related to that last question, would a thermowell for reading the dead center of the beer be nice to have? Absolutely necessary? Absolutely unnecessary?

Thanks!

Switching the A419 from cooling to heating mode is simple, but it does require you to open up the unit and move two jumpers. This takes about 2 minutes or so and it's not a big deal. It will work just fine with a Fermwrap. The thermowell is absolutely unnecessary IMO and might even interfere with the temperature stability. Better to simply place the controller probe against the outside of the fermenter.
 
Would you mind explaining how?

Visualize the controller probe placed near the center of the fermenter. The fermenting wort has a large thermal mass which means that it's core temperature will only change very slowly. With the heat source being external, there will be a considerable lag before the heat reaches the probe and the controller turns off the power. The fermenter walls and the outer regions of the wort will have overshot the target temperature by the time that the controller responds. As the wort cools, the same thing will happen in the opposite direction with the outer regions cooling faster than the core, only this time undershooting the target. The fix is to have the probe positioned against the side of the fermenter. This way, it will only overshoot/undershoot by something close to your selected differential. The entire volume of the fermenter should eventually stabilize at something very close to your set point. Placing the probe closer to the heat source generally works better IMO. There's sure to be some who disagree. This is just my take on it, nothing more.
 
Visualize the controller probe placed near the center of the fermenter. The fermenting wort has a large thermal mass which means that it's core temperature will only change very slowly. With the heat source being external, there will be a considerable lag before the heat reaches the probe and the controller turns off the power.
I suppose so. I would think that the swirling effect of an active fermentation would keep the temp of the beer fairly uniform from edge to core. But I can see your point when talking about the lag phase or during bulk storage after fermentation has subsided.
The fix is to have the probe positioned against the side of the fermenter. This way, it will only overshoot/undershoot by something close to your selected differential. The entire volume of the fermenter should eventually stabilize at something very close to your set point. Placing the probe closer to the heat source generally works better IMO.
If I go this route, should I be insulating the part of the probe that is exposed to the ambient temperature? Otherwise, it seems like my probe would get confused about which temp it’s supposed to be reading, the 68 degree beer, or the 62 degree air under my stairs.

Any suggestions as to what works best?

Thanks for your help so far and in advance!
 
I suppose so. I would think that the swirling effect of an active fermentation would keep the temp of the beer fairly uniform from edge to core. But I can see your point when talking about the lag phase or during bulk storage after fermentation has subsided.

Yes, there will be some mixing as a result of the active fermention and convection currents, but there will be some lag in the response time regardless.

If I go this route, should I be insulating the part of the probe that is exposed to the ambient temperature? Otherwise, it seems like my probe would get confused about which temp it’s supposed to be reading, the 68 degree beer, or the 62 degree air under my stairs.

Any suggestions as to what works best?

Yes, the insulation would help and especially so if the ambient temperature is substantially cooler than the target temp. You can use just about anything for the insulation. Something like the bubble foil insulation would be ideal, but just a piece of foam rubber or even a doubled over wash cloth would work. IOW, anything to trap the heat radiating from the fermenter.

So long as you are not fighting extreme cold, I would think that you could easily maintain the fermenter temp within one degree of your target with the differential set tight at 1 deg or so. Be sure to set the Anti Short Cycle delay to zero so that it does not over ride your differential setting. ie, if your diff is set at 1 deg and the Asd feature is set to 2 minutes, the heater won't be energized at less than the 2 minutes. I don't remember if the controller will even allow you to do that, so it may not matter, but something to check anyway. If you are working against extreme cold, you could throw a blanket or sleeping bag over the whole thing for added insulation or maybe build an insulated box of some kind.

Thanks for your help so far and in advance!

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