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Old 02-21-2013, 08:04 PM   #11
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On sodering - yes, infact there is a whole plumbing dept at your local Lowes or HomeDepot or perhaps GASP! hardware store (do many of these non chains still exist?). Anyhow the guy should be able to point you in the right direction. You can soder copper pipe, but you want plumbing soder, not electronics soder. Plumbing soder is 100% tin, with NO lead. I don't know about electonic soder.

And you need a propane torch, a sodering gun won't do it. But it is how most plumbing feeds in most houses is done.

As to your pump problem, there are methods for making a no pump syphon using a t joint and a breath of air. Basically you put a bit of copper or silicon tubing into your BK, go up to a T joint, and down off the T join to your counter flow chiller and fermentor. Off the T you put another (and LONGER!!!) section of pipe that you can suck on (you can use silicon). Once you get the flow started, you stop sucking and cap/pinch the end - I think the desing I saw on HBT used a 1/4 turn ball valve to stop off the air draw tube. Anyhow that is how you can make a no pump siphon to get it started. As to sending it 2x or not.. I don't know.

Now with my chiller I think it is close to 20 mins but I only have 3 gallons with my emersion chiller. Honestly I just got it, and have only used it 2x. Which reminds me, I need to brew!

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Old 02-21-2013, 08:05 PM   #12
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I use an IC for batches up to 11.5 gal (kettle limit). I can chill from flameout to yeast pitch in 7 minutes, less for smaller batches. The key is to keep the wort moving around the coils. Right now I do that with a 1/2 inch drill with a stainless paddle. I capture the water from the chiller in 30 gallon rubber maid cans, using about 5 gallons to chill a large batch. This water is then used for subsequent brewing. I'm in the process of building a bracket so that I can drop the drill/paddle assy. into the kettle and walk away (actually, just to free up my hands).

On another note, my old IC failed last month, springing major leaks as a result of cold temps (yes, even in California). I had two batches at flameout which I was forced to allow to cool passively overnight. I fearedthe worst but was (pleasantly) surprised when there was no detectable influence of this practice on the flavor of the beer. I wouldn't recommend it, and never for brews using pilsener malt (DMS, don'yt you know) but it is otherwise doable.

Cheers!

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Old 02-21-2013, 08:12 PM   #13
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Hey all,
Chilling the wort is now the most tedious part of my brewday. I am going ot make a wort chiller of some sort.

Those with Counterflow chillers- Can you chill in one pass, without recirculating? I don't want to get a recirculating pump, and just want to use my auto-siphon. My water does peak out at around 80 degrees though in the summer. I guess if I had to use two passes, that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

I found an interesting article in the zymurgy archives (How long will it take to chill your wort, Bible; sep/oct 2004) which when plugging in calculations says it will take less than 4 minutes to cool my wort to pitching temps, in the cooler months when my tap is running around 50 degrees, and around 12 minutes in the peak of summer when it runs around 78 degrees. The spreadsheet will likely be useful to others, you can have a look at it here: http://www.jcbrewing.com/?p=128

If anyone has a sciency source on how effective immersion coolers are compared to counterflows, I would appreciate that. I would even take personal anecdotes.

My next series of questions are related to building a CFC:
I don't have a torch, but can I use a soldering iron to solder copper pipe? I haven't done that, only electronics soldering. I see there are no-solder builds out there- do those hold up over time?

I am trying to figure out if a CFC is worth the extra effort. I like the compactness and look of them. Though I just realized my auto siphon likely can't handle water at boiling temperatures. *sigh* Any other anecdotes to add for one or the other?
I recently built my second immersion chiller... Check out this thread

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/grea...hiller-386382/

There are also good tips in that thread on where to buy the material
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:22 PM   #14
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On sodering - yes, infact there is a whole plumbing dept at your local Lowes or HomeDepot or perhaps GASP! hardware store (do many of these non chains still exist?). Anyhow the guy should be able to point you in the right direction. You can soder copper pipe, but you want plumbing soder, not electronics soder. Plumbing soder is 100% tin, with NO lead. I don't know about electonic soder.

And you need a propane torch, a sodering gun won't do it. But it is how most plumbing feeds in most houses is done.

As to your pump problem, there are methods for making a no pump syphon using a t joint and a breath of air. Basically you put a bit of copper or silicon tubing into your BK, go up to a T joint, and down off the T join to your counter flow chiller and fermentor. Off the T you put another (and LONGER!!!) section of pipe that you can suck on (you can use silicon). Once you get the flow started, you stop sucking and cap/pinch the end - I think the desing I saw on HBT used a 1/4 turn ball valve to stop off the air draw tube. Anyhow that is how you can make a no pump siphon to get it started. As to sending it 2x or not.. I don't know.

Now with my chiller I think it is close to 20 mins but I only have 3 gallons with my emersion chiller. Honestly I just got it, and have only used it 2x. Which reminds me, I need to brew!
Got it- I know the solder is different, but I wasn't sure if a soldering gun would have enough heat to be used for plumbing solder. I would likely never use the propane torch again, and I don't know anyone with one.

I guess I am going to stick w/ an immersion chiller.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:40 AM   #15
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Got it- I know the solder is different, but I wasn't sure if a soldering gun would have enough heat to be used for plumbing solder. I would likely never use the propane torch again, and I don't know anyone with one.

I guess I am going to stick w/ an immersion chiller.
I used my torch once for plumbing (hot water tank replacement.. with father in law much cheaper to buy torch than plumber). But I get your point - it wouldn't make sense for you. The propane is the same tank threads that are used in like colman cook stoves, so if you do camping that would be another use for the tank.

The real problem is that I think it takes hotter temps for the solder to melt and worse, the copper carries away the heat so you need more of it to keep things hot.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:00 PM   #16
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I used my torch once for plumbing (hot water tank replacement.. with father in law much cheaper to buy torch than plumber). But I get your point - it wouldn't make sense for you. The propane is the same tank threads that are used in like colman cook stoves, so if you do camping that would be another use for the tank.

The real problem is that I think it takes hotter temps for the solder to melt and worse, the copper carries away the heat so you need more of it to keep things hot.
I live in a condo just outside manhattan so yeah, Its likely I won't ever need a propane torch again . I am going to stick with an immersion chiller, and maybe I will be able to re-use the copper if I upgrade to a counterflow. I still have an unresolved issue where I have a pull-down faucet, and I am not exactly sure how I am going to be able to connect a hose to it. Hopefully Home Depot has a solution for that!
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:16 PM   #17
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Do you mean just letting it sit out to cool overnight? I could... but to be honest by the point of cooling, I just want to be done with everything. Get the kitchen cleaned up and the beer in the fermenter.
I have been kicking this idea around lately. No, do NOT leave it in an open pot to cool. There is a plastic square method that is outlines on the no chill threads, worth a look. If you keg, pick up an extra used corny, transfer the hot wort to it, hit it with a quick co2 to bleed out any oxygen and let it sit in your ferm chanber/outside overnight. Then in the AM, removing the gas out QD and hose clamping some 1/2'' hose to blowoff and BOOM no chill, right in the fermenter!
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:46 PM   #18
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I live in a condo just outside manhattan so yeah, Its likely I won't ever need a propane torch again . I am going to stick with an immersion chiller, and maybe I will be able to re-use the copper if I upgrade to a counterflow. I still have an unresolved issue where I have a pull-down faucet, and I am not exactly sure how I am going to be able to connect a hose to it. Hopefully Home Depot has a solution for that!
Condo so you own it? Here is what I did.. .can you do plumbing? a little?

Here is what I used because my wort chiller had a garden hose adaptor, if you are making your own, you can probably find a differnt barbed mate.

Parts, Teflon tape, a 30 inch or better 60 inch braided hose (I used 30 wish I'd used 60), a 'boiler' tap from lowes/depot alternativly a threaded washing machine hook up. Boiler tap is 1/4 turn, instead of multi turn. And a tee plumbin adaptor.

1. Shut off cold water feed.
2. unthreaded it from my kitchen sink, and then inserted the T and reconnected the cold to the sink.
3. took the braided hose and connected to the other part of the T and then ran that to my boiler tap. I think boiler was 1/2 in to hose out. Anyhow it fit what I had.

I used teflon tape on all the male threads - it helps get a tighter seal. Now with 30 inches I go from the back of my cabinet to the front. and screw in my wort chiller when I put it in the wort.

Why use a 60 inch? Because then I coudl have the connection in the sink. I was affraid of a leak (it doesn't) but also when I unscrew it, all the water in the hose has to go somewhere, so I have to put a spare pot on the floor to get it. Anyhow that is the basics. Your local home depot or lowes or... wait Manhatten? hmmm... well I don't ever recall seeing a Hardware store in that part of NYC, but they should have something. I think the 60 inch hose might be a dishwasher hose.

My under the kitchen sink all screws together (did that remode myself), if yours doesn't, they have compression fittings that require no soldering, so you can just adapt, although you might need a hack saw for a cut. and basically do the same. Infact I think my T joint came as a compression fitting, but could be used as I did - just threads.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:21 PM   #19
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Oh yeah? Why is that? I don't want a pump of any sort. Aside from cost, I am really tight on storage space.
If you don't want to use a pump, then I would not recommend using a plate CFC. A tube-within-a-tube CFC will work okay without a pump.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:03 PM   #20
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Condo so you own it? Here is what I did.. .can you do plumbing? a little?

Here is what I used because my wort chiller had a garden hose adaptor, if you are making your own, you can probably find a differnt barbed mate.

Parts, Teflon tape, a 30 inch or better 60 inch braided hose (I used 30 wish I'd used 60), a 'boiler' tap from lowes/depot alternativly a threaded washing machine hook up. Boiler tap is 1/4 turn, instead of multi turn. And a tee plumbin adaptor.

1. Shut off cold water feed.
2. unthreaded it from my kitchen sink, and then inserted the T and reconnected the cold to the sink.
3. took the braided hose and connected to the other part of the T and then ran that to my boiler tap. I think boiler was 1/2 in to hose out. Anyhow it fit what I had.

I used teflon tape on all the male threads - it helps get a tighter seal. Now with 30 inches I go from the back of my cabinet to the front. and screw in my wort chiller when I put it in the wort.

Why use a 60 inch? Because then I coudl have the connection in the sink. I was affraid of a leak (it doesn't) but also when I unscrew it, all the water in the hose has to go somewhere, so I have to put a spare pot on the floor to get it. Anyhow that is the basics. Your local home depot or lowes or... wait Manhatten? hmmm... well I don't ever recall seeing a Hardware store in that part of NYC, but they should have something. I think the 60 inch hose might be a dishwasher hose.

My under the kitchen sink all screws together (did that remode myself), if yours doesn't, they have compression fittings that require no soldering, so you can just adapt, although you might need a hack saw for a cut. and basically do the same. Infact I think my T joint came as a compression fitting, but could be used as I did - just threads.
There is actually a decent home depot in Manhattan on 6th ave and 14th ish. It looks pretty crappy (like a home store) when you walk in, but downstairs its enormous and a pretty typical home depot. I live in Jersey City though, and have a home depot near me.
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