Yet another where do I start with electric thread

[lschiavo]

Yes, for 50A, #6 is the proper size. It is also good for 60A.

I would use NM cable (romex) like the type feeding your existing garage panel. You should be able to buy exactly the length you need at hardware or box stores and also the box connectors.

 

[runningweird]

to the hardware store!

 

[runningweird]

so far I have been unable to find #6 wire sold in shorter lengths than 50 feet.
Today I picked up some stainless lock nuts for the heating elements - which I am planning on silver soldering onto the kegs-and a pack of silicone o rings

I got both these things from Amazon - i have prime so I get free two day shipping - this made it cheaper than going through mcmaster carr.

Tomorrow I have to get my co2 tank exchanged, due to a slow leak from a pin lock keg. I will try home depot in order to get some 6 gauge wire and maybe a big plastic enclosure.

After careful consideration(i.e I am trying to save money) I am going to pot my elements in a pvc coupling a la the Pol. I found a 1 inch coupling with threads on one side and a screw in plug for the threaded end. I plan on potting the element and lines and then running the cord through a drilled hole in the lid. All will be filled with JB weld and plumbing epoxy back near the screw in part.

 

[runningweird]

I think I am going to set up the whole thing to be expandable. I want to just start with an electric brew kettle but want to be able to use the same panel and lines to expand into a HERMS system.

selling a keg or three tomorrow which will help fund the madness.

 

[hatrickwah]

so far I have been unable to find #6 wire sold in shorter lengths than 50 feet.
Today I picked up some stainless lock nuts for the heating elements - which I am planning on silver soldering onto the kegs-and a pack of silicone o rings

I got both these things from Amazon - i have prime so I get free two day shipping - this made it cheaper than going through mcmaster carr.

Tomorrow I have to get my co2 tank exchanged, due to a slow leak from a pin lock keg. I will try home depot in order to get some 6 gauge wire and maybe a big plastic enclosure.

After careful consideration(i.e I am trying to save money) I am going to pot my elements in a pvc coupling a la the Pol. I found a 1 inch coupling with threads on one side and a screw in plug for the threaded end. I plan on potting the element and lines and then running the cord through a drilled hole in the lid. All will be filled with JB weld and plumbing epoxy back near the screw in part.

Before you buy the wire at the big box store, check your electric supply company. Because they cater to the electricians they tend to be cheap. I found 6# for almost half what Lowe's was charging by the foot, $0.60 vs. $1.12.

 

[runningweird]

I'll try to check one out tomorrow.

 

[lschiavo]

Before you buy the wire at the big box store, check your electric supply company. Because they cater to the electricians they tend to be cheap. I found 6# for almost half what Lowe's was charging by the foot, $0.60 vs. $1.12.

That is a great suggestion. If that does not work out, call some electrical contractors. They probably have a few short pieces on the scrap pile.

 

[runningweird]

I found a company about twenty minutes from me that has 6/3 romex with a ground for 2 bucks a foot - cheapest I have found.

I soldered the lock nut onto my keg last night and leak tested it, going on almost 24 hours and no leaks.

one question now though:

since I am going from a 60 amp breaker to a 50 amp spa panel do I need to do anything to lower the amps into my control panel? I have read some people put another breaker in their boxes at 30 amps for safety.

do I have to do this or can I just run the wires from the spa panel plug to the distribution blocks inside the control panel?

 

[milldoggy]

Naa you are fine. The 50 amp breaker will trip if more than 50 amps is pulled. Just make sure you run the 6 gauge from the breaker to the 50 amp panel, then technically, depending on length you can use 8 guage from the 50 to your panel. The breaker is controlling max load. The load is ~0 amps unless something is pulling it. So if something goes wrong and trys to pull more than 50 amps, you spa panel will trip. This is like doing an addition to your house. You install a 60 amp breaker into your panel, then in your sub panel you have two 20 amps and 2 15 amp breakers to make regular house circuits.

Edit - I am assuming your control panel is all sized for 50 amp and you are protecting you 120 amp stuff with fuses. If you are building a 30 amp panel, use a 30 amp breaker in your panel and a 50 amp spa panel for the GFCI. This way your 30 amp will protect the load and the spa panel gives you the GFCI protection.

 

[milldoggy]

btw, where did you find that cable. I am not that far from you and that seems like a good price.

 

[P-J]

I found a company about twenty minutes from me that has 6/3 romex with a ground for 2 bucks a foot - cheapest I have found.

I soldered the lock nut onto my keg last night and leak tested it, going on almost 24 hours and no leaks.

one question now though:

since I am going from a 60 amp breaker to a 50 amp spa panel do I need to do anything to lower the amps into my control panel? I have read some people put another breaker in their boxes at 30 amps for safety.

do I have to do this or can I just run the wires from the spa panel plug to the distribution blocks inside the control panel?

With the setup you describe, you really need to add circuit breakers within your controller sized for each circuit involved. If not? You are playing "You bet your life.!"

 

[runningweird]

Its in chambersburg pa. I will look up the name .

 

[runningweird]

With the setup you describe, you really need to add circuit breakers within your controller sized for each circuit involved. If not? You are playing "You bet your life.!"

Ok. I have one 30 amp breaker that I can put into the box. So I take the wires from the spa panel to that beaker then out to the terminal blocks correct?. At present I only want a pwm ssr panel, but with room to expand to a full herms panel with basic pid controls for the mash.

 

[milldoggy]

The 30 amp snaps into the panel. It connects to the backplate(not sure if this is the right term) Since the 30 amp is not a GFCI, it will not have the pigtail to the terminal blocks. The two hots from you 6 gauge connect to the 30 amp breaker. The ground and neutral get tied to the grounding/neutral bar in the panel. These 4 wires go to your spa panel. The two hots go to you 50 amp gfci breaker. The breaker should have a pig tail to a terminal strip. I would look for one of PJ's diagrams on how to wire this. He has a really good diagram around here. I am not an electrician and what I say above I think is correct, but I could be wrong. Always consult with an electrician, luckily my neighbor is an engineer with a huge amount of electrical experience and he helped me run my with her buddy who was an electrician.

If you have not done this before, be safe and hire an electrician.

 

[P-J]

Ok. I have one 30 amp breaker that I can put into the box. So I take the wires from the spa panel to that beaker then out to the terminal blocks correct?. At present I only want a pwm ssr panel, but with room to expand to a full herms panel with basic pid controls for the mash.

You are in WAY over your head. Please have someone review what you intend to do. Also, dream out your final plan and go with that as your objective.

At this moment, I feel like you are playing "You bet your life."

 

[runningweird]

You are in WAY over your head. Please have someone review what you intend to do. Also, dream out your final plan and go with that as your objective.

At this moment, I feel like you are playing "You bet your life."

I know. I don't plan I'm putting anything together until I have an ee friend vet it all

 

[runningweird]

so it took a while but i finally realized I can just put a 30 amp breaker in the main panel that leads to the spa panel and I won't have to add more breakers to my control panel. I really am down the pole on electrical knowledge. ordered a 30 amp breaker from amazon.

 

[lschiavo]

so it took a while but i finally realized I can just put a 30 amp breaker in the main panel that leads to the spa panel and I won't have to add more breakers to my control panel. I really am down the pole on electrical knowledge. ordered a 30 amp breaker from amazon.

You can also fuse in your control panel as needed. Do you have a diagram for your panel?

 

[runningweird]

yeah, I am just as we speak wiring my spa panel and with outlet mounted in the side. using Pjs wiring diagram here:

 

[lschiavo]

yeah, I am just as we speak wiring my spa panel and with outlet mounted in the side. using Pjs wiring diagram here:

That's a good start. The good stuff happens in the control panel...keep us posted.

 

[runningweird]

got it wired - I need to get some plastic conduit tube for the wires to make sure its neat and orderly then tomorrow I will mount the breaker into the garage sub panel and test out the spa panel connections with a voltimeter.

cheap options for a plastic control panel enclosure?

 

[lschiavo]

The one I used for Yooper (towards the beginning of the thread) is a 12x12x6 pvc box. It's a nice size to fit everything and should run around $40. That's the cheapest I've found.

 

[ravhawk2000]

Ok, dont mean to jump in on this. But if u are using a breaker box with an existing 240line that used to power the old electric kitchen stove upstairs, could u just run off that to.the spa panel? Or do you need.to.go back to the panel where the 240line is.located and.start.from there. The panel is a 200a breaker box. Again, sorry to go off on a tangent, but it seemed to at least loosely fit the topic,lol.

 

[onthekeg]

Rayhawk, You don't have to go back to the panel. Just start from your plug wherever it is.

 

[ravhawk2000]

Ok, so i plan on just pulling the plug through the floor and back towards the panel in basement. Which is coincidentally where the bar and brewery will be. Then just use a reg. 240 line and plug like for the stove, but run it to the spa panel. Then i can go from there to the cp. Correct me if i'm mistaken on this and sorry to the OP again. I dont mean to hijack your thread, lol.

 

[runningweird]

why apologize? this thread is all about doing things in a way to keep my stupid a$$ alive and drinking.

all the little bits of information help

 

[ravhawk2000]

Well that's certainly true. But I know you want the information you came here looking for and I don't want to spin your topic off into my topic, lol.

 

[runningweird]

any suggestions on where to find a 240v 30A dpst toggle switch ? looking online has given me stuff with really high prices.

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

Why would you not use a contactor, that is what they are made for...

 

[pvtschultz]

This is what I used. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than a over-sized switch.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KGSJ74/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20