Yet Another 240 Anvil Question

[808Bob]

My wife's kiln has an outlet I want to use for 240v. She's got some kind adapter so I've got two plug options: match the adapter or the wall plug. Wall plug is marked NEMA 14-50R and 50A-125/250v. I can't quite read the marking on the adapter. I'm including pictures of both, the 4 prong outlet is the wall outlet and the 3 prong is the adapter. BTW in the picture the adapter looks like a regular 3 prong, but it's large, marked 250v

My questions are:
1. Is this outlet too beefy, or is 50amp 250v ok?
2. Which should I match when replacing plug?
3. What specific plug do I need?

 

[Brumateur]

1-OK
2 Use wall outlet. You need 4 wires for Anvil 240
3. Surprise - NEMA 14-50P (for example - https://www.amazon.com/Miady-14-50P-4-Prong-Straight-Replacement/dp/B07L3BMKJP)

 

[808Bob]

Ok, remove the plug, replace with that one. Check. I understand it needs GFCI protection and it can be inline or a breaker, correct? Breaker is good but more expensive?
I've not seen any user installable inline ones rated 240v in stock. Suggestions?

 

[Brumateur]

I know many forum users won't agree but I believe that GFCI need is overrated. You can be safe without GFCI if all your equipment properly grounded. Millions peoples using washers/dryers/stove without GFCI and don't get electrocuted. All industrial equipment work without GFCI either. GFCI must be used only if you have un-grounded equipment in a wet condition like hairdryer etc.

 

[808Bob]

It's not wet, everything grounded. I'll probably just replace the plug and replace the breaker at some point. Thanks

 

[renstyle]

(1) - agree with @Brumateur. The foundry pulls max 12A @ 240V at 100% power, so a 50A will work perfectly.

2 Use wall outlet. You need 4 wires for Anvil 240

Only 3 wires are utilized on the Anvil system in 240V operation: Hot, Hot, Ground. The neutral line isn't extended from the NEMA 14-50 as it is not used/connected to anything within the kit.

I'm one of the folks on the forum that would rather be safe than sorry regarding a 240V GFCI. The best in-line solution I've seen was created by @highland_brewer here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/power-cord-with-inline-240v-gfi-protection.674779/
Unfortunately the GFCI used in this thread is currently out of stock on Amazon, but at sub-$65.00 it was the most cost effective way I've found thus far to get some protection.

Making an "adapter-GFCI cable" will offer the ability to run on 120V using the stock power cord down the line should the need arise (say if you take your rig to a friend's 120V-only garage for a brew day).

(3) - the NEMA 14-50P referenced above is spot-on. You can remove the neutral bar from that plug, or leave it in the plug but not connected to any wire (cuz it wouldn't connect to anything down the line anyway).

I'd just pull it and roll with Hot, Hot, Ground... along with the in-line GFCI.

All of the above will still work, electrically, without the GFCI, I just wouldn't recommend it personally.

 

[Bobby_M]

"GFCI is unnecessary if your equipment is correctly grounded" is similar to "You don't need a seatbelt in your car if you and everyone else drives safely".

GFCI is an extra layer of protection if your ground gets accidentally disconnected and the hot is also being shorted to your kettle. It's unlikely that both happen at the same time but the stakes are too high if you were to win that lottery.

If I were building it (I'm not suggesting you should), I would make an inline current/GFCI device by putting this into a 4x4x2 plastic junction box:
https://www.asi-ez.com/member/~NDB1L-32C-16-240V.asp?
The extra benefit is that you get over current protection. With that 14 gauge cable on the Anvil, it's a little risky to run it as the sole load on a 50 amp circuit.

Rather than cut off the 15amp 120v plug on the Anvil, I would make an adapter cable as part of the inline GFCI. Extra points for a cord tag that explains the output will be 240 volts, not to be used with anything other than the Anvil Foundry in 240v mode.

 

[jhmccl]

I purchased a Southwire Shocksheil ground fault protection model 25000-016 240v for $48.00 on E-bay. Wired one end to my 240v cord, and made a short cable w/120v female connector to plug it he AF into without changing the plug on the AF just like Brian from Short Circuited Brewing shows in his video.

 

[myndflyte]

Do you see in the comments of that video that he recommends a 120v inline GFCI breaker for those that can't find the 240v. That can't be safe right?

 

[renstyle]

The in-line GFCI I mentioned earlier is available again in the rainforest:

Southwire 25000016-6 120V/20A and 240V/20A, Dual Voltage In-Line User Attachable GFCI, Yellow

Available 10/14 for a hair under 3 Jacksons.

 

[808Bob]

The in-line GFCI I mentioned earlier is available again in the rainforest:

Southwire 25000016-6 120V/20A and 240V/20A, Dual Voltage In-Line User Attachable GFCI, Yellow

Available 10/14 for a hair under 3 Jacksons.

Thanks!

 

[Brumateur]

.

 

[jseyfert3]

I know many forum users won't agree but I believe that GFCI need is overrated. You can be safe without GFCI if all your equipment properly grounded. Millions peoples using washers/dryers/stove without GFCI and don't get electrocuted. All industrial equipment work without GFCI either. GFCI must be used only if you have un-grounded equipment in a wet condition like hairdryer etc.

My hot tub is grounded but is required by code to have GFCI, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

Grounding is intended to prevent harm by allowing any possible shorts a path to ground, which will immediately trip the breaker/fuse. This would be something like a loose wire touching a grounded metal case of a product. This works really well, when the conductors are inside a grounded metal case and no water is involved.

However, water isn't usually very conductive. If you have something like a broken heater, the water will conduct some electricity but likely nowhere near enough to trip a breaker. So the water could be dangerous if you contact both the water and a grounded surface. The GFCI will detect this and shut off power with as little as 5 mA of leakage current, in 1/40th of a second or less (fast enough to prevent a heart attack).

Anything wet = use a GFCI, whether grounded or not!