Yeast Ranching

[rwabdu]

I am fermenting a pale ale right now with California Ale Yeast, I know that I want to brew a porter with the same strain later in the week.
1) Can i just skim all the foam off the top of my fermenting beer?
2) its been fermenting for about 24 hours now. What should i do with it once i skim it off, just make a starter with it?
3)and finally will it affect my current beer if i take all the foam off?

thank you for the help!

 

[LVBen]

1) yes
2) yes
3) possibly. Some people think it is better for your beer to take the krausen off of the top.

 

[dfc]

I've never heard it called yeast ranching before.

 

[Frodo]

What? I'm sorta drunk now, but skim off the krausen and you expect good yeast? That just sounds silly to me. Who am I though, it might work. In the future, if you want to make a couple batches within a short period of time with the same yeast, make a really big starter from the original vial, split that into maybe three different 1 pint jars, then use those as the originals to make the starters for your batches.

 

[Golddiggie]

Typically we collect the yeast cake, after fermentation is completed and we've racked the brew off of it. I don't see how using the krausen will get you anything worth using.

I would either postpone the porter until the pale ale is done, and off the yeast cake, or just get another package of the yeast and brew it.

Review the thread on yeast washing for how to do it. I've done that with great results to date.

 

[rwabdu]

I read it in John Palmer's book online:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-8.html

 

[Pilgarlic]

It's called "top cropping" and it's the method used by commercial brewers. The clean krausen (under the gunk layer, which should be disposed of) is very healthy, viable yeast.

 

[Pilgarlic]

From the Wyeast site:
"Open Top Fermenters / Top Cropping:
Harvesting yeast from the top of open fermenters (top cropping) is still a widely used practice in the modern brewing industry. Specific yeast strains which rise to form a dense head must be used, making top cropping nearly exclusive to ale and wheat strains. As with other methods of harvesting yeast, harvesting a consistent population which avoids the extremes is important.

Yeast should be harvested once fermentables have been reduced by 50% or more. The timing of the skim should be consistent from batch to batch to help maintain fermentation profile. A head will rise approximately 24-36 hours into fermentation. The first “dirt” skim containing trub should be discarded as should the final skim. The middle skim should be harvested and used."

 

[rwabdu]

oh nice. thank you. How long will i be able to keep my yeast alive and in good shape once I harvest and wash it? will it live forever in my refrigerator?

 

[passedpawn]

I don't see how using the krausen will get you anything worth using.

Just opposite what you'd expect then. The krausen is chock full of happy healthy yeast cells.

 

[Golddiggie]

Just opposite what you'd expect then. The krausen is chock full of happy healthy yeast cells.

Interesting, but useless for me since I'm not fermenting in buckets. I have zero plans of ever fermenting in buckets ever again too. I'll just keep on washing/rinsing the yeast once the brew is done, and has been racked off of it.

The page linked to earlier did mention about the risk of contaminating the brew when harvesting the krausen... IMO, the risk:reward ratio, compared with harvesting the cake, just just not right.

 

[wedge421]

A lot of breweries actually pull yeast from the top. I stick with using the yeast cake or pulling from a conical dump valve. Just works for me.

 

[MalFet]

Interesting, but useless for me since I'm not fermenting in buckets. I have zero plans of ever fermenting in buckets ever again too. I'll just keep on washing/rinsing the yeast once the brew is done, and has been racked off of it.

The page linked to earlier did mention about the risk of contaminating the brew when harvesting the krausen... IMO, the risk:reward ratio, compared with harvesting the cake, just just not right.

There are plenty of threads around here about top cropping out of carboys, and the sanitation risks are only there if you can't get a racking cane clean. Anyway, it's less than taking a hydro sample.

There's also a lot of thinking that suggests that top cropping will get you more genetically heterogeneous yeast than cake washing will.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm not taking that many hydrometer samples...

"There's also a lot of thinking that suggests that top cropping will get you more genetically heterogeneous yeast than cake washing will."

Thinking and suggests means that no one has bothered to test either to confirm one way or another. SO, unless it comes back, with proof positive that it is a vastly superior method, I'm not going to do it. Even then, I probably won't... IMO it's just not worth the extra work too... I'm not harvesting several generations here. I havest one or two generations from the original yeast pitched and that's about it. I simply get too much yeast from those harvests to need to do more. I was planning on brewing a lot more than I am now. Even if I did brew enough to use the same yeast that much, it would mean I'd not be using any others. I do like to switch yeasts to get what I really want in a brew.

I have two jars of yeast left in the fridge, two strains. I'll use those and probably not harvest any of the cake I get. Means that once I've used those up, I'll be buying another package of yeast... NBD... Of course, I do have a brew sitting on a fresh cake, that I'll probably harvest some of, so that I can make a few other brews from that...

Getting even just 4-6 extra batches from a single package of yeast really brings down the overall cost...

 

[MalFet]

SO, unless it comes back, with proof positive that it is a vastly superior method, I'm not going to do it.

I'm not telling you so you'll do it. I'm telling you so you'll stop spreading incorrect information around the internets.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm not telling you so you'll do it. I'm telling you so you'll stop spreading incorrect information around the internets.

Really... Guess you missed the IMO that I've put in my posts about this... I'm not spreading ANY incorrect/false information about this. Just saying I'M not going to do it. Not telling anyone else to do it at all. Just that I'M NOT GOING TO BE DOING IT... Clear enough yet????

 

[Pilgarlic]

Benefits of top-cropping, from the White Labs site:

"Top cropped yeast rises at a particular time in the fermentation, has a high viability, and is relatively free from trub. When yeast is forced to the bottom of a conical fermentor, it mixes with dead yeast, trub, and bacteria. This means we have to be careful when collecting yeast, store it for short times, and test it before reusing."

 

[TRainH2o]

Since we are talking about Ale yeast, top fermenting yeast, I would assume that the yeast that rides up into the krausen, is the healthiest yeast.

The guys at Brewing TV top crop their yest on several episodes. I haven't ever tried it but it is a viable method of harvesting the most active, cleanest yeast.

 

[MalFet]

Here's a good video depicting one method of carboy top-cropping:
http://www.aleiens.com/video/top-cropping-yeast-from-a

 

[passedpawn]

Here's a good video depicting one method of carboy top-cropping:
http://www.aleiens.com/video/top-cropping-yeast-from-a

Great video. Thanks for finding and posting.

 

[LVBen]

I think it is an great idea to purposely use smaller carboys and buckets than you need so you can just direct the blow-off into a sanitized container. I had a light blowoff a couple of weeks ago and my airlock was full of beautiful looking yeast. I didn't save it, though, obviously, since it mixed with my airlock water.