yeast never started, twice

[scottlindner]

I've been brewing for a long time and this is a first for me. I'm trying to be patient, but this is just too unusual for me to not write about and get ideas on.

This Sunday I brewed a fairly normal pale ale. I had a somewhat old vial of WLP001 on hand, but it was just barely within the best by date so I didn't think I was risking anything. Around 1pm I pitched the yeast into wort that was around 65-70F. This was an all grain batch, and I aerated the wort with a drill and paint mixer. I stored it in the basement and the temp dropped to around 62F by next morning, so I brought it up to a warmer part of the house.

Yesterday at 47 hours there was zero activity so I pitched in some fresh 1056. The wort was at 66F at the time.

It's now 3 days since I pitched the first vial of yeast, 24 hours since the second, and there is still zero activity. I am used to starts in the 8-16 hour time frame, so this one really has me scratching my head.

Is it possible to mash a completely unfermentable wort? I can't think of anything else but there is something wrong with this wort.

Scott

 

[Niederhofer]

Did you make a starter for the WLP001? Also, the WL website says it ferments best between 68-73. No starter+old vial+cold temps could make for a pretty slow start.

 

[scottlindner]

No starter. Yah, I kinda expected slow, and if that's all this is, I can be cool. But 72 hours and no activity at all? That's just not in my language of normal so that's why I'm curious what's going on.

If you say it's just an old vial, plus slightly low temp, causing a seriously slow start, then I'll go home and think about my next brew to make. If not, I need to start thinking about ways to control the funk into something I want like a tasty sour pale.

Scott

 

[Niederhofer]

What are you fermenting in? I know a couple of people who assumed they weren't fermenting because their airlock wasn't bubbling. Turned out the seal on their fermenter wasn't air tight so they were fermenting, they just couldn't tell. I'd wait a couple more days and take a hydro test. I can't imagine you wouldn't be fermenting at all after adding yeast twice...

 

[Niederhofer]

Good luck!

 

[scottlindner]

It's an opaque plastic pail. I have been lifting the lid off (against my better judgment to leave it alone) to see what's going on.

I agree that I would expect some activity, even if it's light. That's why I posted. Maybe it is the temps. I'll see if I can get it warmer somehow. We keep our home at 67F during the winter, so I'll need to be creative in how I warm it up.

Scott

 

[dirk_diggler]

starters are paramount.

 

[user 34267]

The lids on those plastic buckets are hit-or-miss when it comes to sealing.

My buddy had a bucket that virtually never put activity in the airlock because the pressure came out of the bad seal along the edges.

The hydrometer will tell you. The hydrometer knows all.

 

[scottlindner]

starters are paramount.

I know. This is a five gallon starter for my next batch.

 

[scottlindner]

The lids on those plastic buckets are hit-or-miss when it comes to sealing.

My buddy had a bucket that virtually never put activity in the airlock because the pressure came out of the bad seal along the edges.

The hydrometer will tell you. The hydrometer knows all.

I pulled the lid off to see there was no activity. Leaky seal or not, there was no activity.

 

[scottlindner]

I think I know what happened. First, it started at 74 hours of lag time from the WLP001 and 27 hours lag from the 1056.

To summarize, the first gent to respond was probably right. It was a temp problem. Why I could have brewed around 100 batches of brew and never be concerned with this is what took me a bit to figure out. I used to live in a very warm climate and keeping things cool was the big challenge. I since moved to a cooler climate, but even then, it isn't that cold here. However, this is a much colder year than usual for this region. This is the first batch of brew I've ever made where I needed to warm things up to get a start. I've never been in this position before, so it wasn't in my bag of tricks.

Stupid lesson, but I'm glad I learned it. Now I'm thinking about how best to regulate the temps of my fermenters on a more consistent basis.

Cheers,
Scott

 

[fineexampl]

a. old yeast
b. no starter with old yeast
c. plastic bucket with potentially faulty lid
d. repeatedly opening the lid to check on a plastic bucket with potentially faulty lid

My friend...lock it it, tape seal the lid and/or bang it on there good and tight, leave it somewhere warm (in the above 70F range) until you see the airlock banging for a couple days, then drop the whole thing into that 62F. I'm sorry to say, but i think you don't see activity because you aren't letting the yeast work it's magic.

 

[scottlindner]

e. too cool of temps

New to brewing in cold weather, and this is an unusually cold year. Past two years were fine in the basement. Didn't notice exactly how cold it was down there this winter.

 

[scottlindner]

e. too cold

New to brewing in cold weather, and this is an unusually cold year. Past two years were fine in the basement. Didn't notice exactly how cold it was down there this winter. I suspect the first vial would have started in my typical 8-16 hours like it usually does if I had considered the temp situation down there.

 

[hukdizzle]

I've been brewing for a long time and this is a first for me. I'm trying to be patient, but this is just too unusual for me to not write about and get ideas on.

This Sunday I brewed a fairly normal pale ale. I had a somewhat old vial of WLP001 on hand, but it was just barely within the best by date so I didn't think I was risking anything. Around 1pm I pitched the yeast into wort that was around 65-70F. This was an all grain batch, and I aerated the wort with a drill and paint mixer. I stored it in the basement and the temp dropped to around 62F by next morning, so I brought it up to a warmer part of the house.

Yesterday at 47 hours there was zero activity so I pitched in some fresh 1056. The wort was at 66F at the time.

It's now 3 days since I pitched the first vial of yeast, 24 hours since the second, and there is still zero activity. I am used to starts in the 8-16 hour time frame, so this one really has me scratching my head.

Is it possible to mash a completely unfermentable wort? I can't think of anything else but there is something wrong with this wort.

Scott

How big was your starter and how did you aerate it? If you were just inside the best by date on that WL tube then it was manufactured sometime in November which gives it about a 35% viability rate at optimal storage conditions. It would have taken a 3 liter starter on a stir plate to reach the 204 billion cells you need for a middle of the road 5.5 gallon (1.053 SG) Pale Ale.

I had issues with WLP001 when I tried to ferment it at 65'F unknowing of it's optimal range and had a very slow start as well so I think this is your biggest issue here. WLP001 seems to be very fickle about it's lower threshold temperature and anything lower than 67'F-68'F seems to have a drastic effect on it's cell reproduction which causes slow starts. I am pretty sure this is your main issue, warm the carboy up to 70'F if you can and the yeast should start to see visible fermentation within 24 hours or so.

What was your SG reading before you pitched the yeast? I highly doubt you made an unfermentable wort.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Did you even try to take a gravity sample?

 

[scottlindner]

How big was your starter and how did you aerate it?

5.5 gal starter and I did aerate. What I mean is, I brew a batch of something simple as a starter for my next batch. It's easier for me, and I get a free keg of brew out of it.

I had issues with WLP001 when I tried to ferment it at 65'F unknowing of it's optimal range and had a very slow start as well so I think this is your biggest issue here. WLP001 seems to be very fickle about it's lower threshold temperature and anything lower than 67'F-68'F seems to have a drastic effect on it's cell reproduction which causes slow starts. I am pretty sure this is your main issue, warm the carboy up to 70'F if you can and the yeast should start to see visible fermentation within 24 hours or so.

What was your SG reading before you pitched the yeast? I highly doubt you made an unfermentable wort.

I have it up to 68F now and it's moving along, but for the first three days when I had it at a lower temp there was nothing. The OG is 1.070. So as the first responder suggested, I agree this was a temp problem. Which is something I've never had to think about before so it caught me off guard.

Scott

 

[Niederhofer]

Scott,

I'm glad to hear things are finally taking off! Good luck with the beer, and let us know how it turns out!

 

[scottlindner]

Scott,

I'm glad to hear things are finally taking off! Good luck with the beer, and let us know how it turns out!

I'm sure it'll be fine. I still can't believe I didn't think of it being too cold for the yeast.

The gas coming out of the lock smells heavenly. Is anyone else addicted to smelling the off gas like I am?

Scott

 

[hukdizzle]

I'm sure it'll be fine. I still can't believe I didn't think of it being too cold for the yeast.

The gas coming out of the lock smells heavenly. Is anyone else addicted to smelling the off gas like I am?

Scott

Yeah I am an offender without a doubt, I enjoy the smell of just about everything I brew.