Wyeast activator smack packs

[mirage137]

I have a question that I'll probably answer when asking it. I know that I have to smack the packs to break the activator of nutrients inside and let incubate a few hours before pitching. Well I did so the other day when brewing, however when pitching I noticed that the small bag inside the pack was still intact. I was like great, all that work and now the yeast isn't prepared like it should, I'm screwed. So I buttoned up the carboy anyways to see if it would still ferment like normal and sure enough less than 12 hours later it's bubbling away pretty good through the blow off tube. So the question is did I still do the smack pack correct or is that small bag inside the pack supposed to be popped as well?

 

[Brewham]

It is supposed to pop. The yeast is in the liquid and inside the bag are additional nutrients to multiply the yeast. You probably underpitched by just putting in the "seed yeast" but if it is fermenting anyway, you are OK. Watch for a stalled fermentation and if that happens, gently stir up the yeast from the bottom of the fermenter and move to a warmer location to wake the yeast up and get it to finish.

 

[kh54s10]

The inner pack is the nutrient pack and should break. It helps get the yeast active and start to multiply.

Wyeast and White Labs smackpacks and vials do not contain enough yeast cells to ferment beer at the optimum level. Look into making yeast starters. Check out mrmalty.com

Any way your beer should do just fine the way it is.

 

[statseeker]

Next time build a starter and the smacking of the pack will be unnecessary and you'll know the yeast are awake/reproduced before pitching them.

 

[mirage137]

Thanks for the responses. I was checking out a brew calculator to figure out how many packs needed without a starter and it called for 2 packs. So yeah 2 packs not prepared right but I was just happy that it still started bubbling away the next day. I have looked into making starters just haven't gotten around to planning properly the day before.

 

[bighorn_brew]

I don't "smack'em," I force the ball into the corner, then gently squeeze it till I feel it release its contents...then while pitching, find the ball again, and hold it in the corner, squeeze it while I pitch the yeast...

 

[Walker]

Wyeast smackpacks and vials do not contain enough yeast cells to ferment beer at the optimum level. Look into making yeast starters. Check out mrmalty.com

I hate reading this over and over. The Activator packs actually have this printed right on the front of the packaging:

Direct Pitch ACTIVATOR for Brewing

Our ACTIVATOR is designed to inoculate 5 gallons of wort with the same pitch rate recommended by professional brewers.

And this right on the back:

5. Shake well, open and pour the Activator into 5 gallons of well aerated or oxygenated wort up to 1.060 OG

Clearly Mr Malty disagrees on this topic, but people seem to prefer what Jamil says over what the yeast manufacturer says.

I side with Wyeast on this one. I never make starters with the Activator packs, and everything works just super.

Now.... Wyeast used to make smaller packs (maybe they still do) called a Propagator. THOSE were intended to be used to make a starter. The Activator packs, however, are meant to pitch directly.

 

[scottland]

I hate reading this over and over. The Activator packs actually have this printed right on the front of the packaging:

I'm going to disagree. Just because it has enough yeast to ferment the batch, doesn't mean it's the proper amount of yeast to make the best beer. If you pitch a Wyeast smack pack in 5.5gallons of 1.055 you are pitching half the optimal amount of yeast. And that's assuming the smack pack is fresh; if it's a couple months old, you are underpitching by a factor of 4.

I don't care what the packaging says. The optimal pitch rate for 5 gallons of 1.055 wort is around 200-220 billion cells. A Wyeast smack pack contains roughly 100 billion viable cells. That's when it's fresh, that number declines rapidly over a few months.

 

[user 40839]

Clearly Mr Malty disagrees on this topic, but people seem to prefer what Jamil says over what the yeast manufacturer says.

I side with Wyeast on this one. I never make starters with the Activator packs, and everything works just super.

This. White Labs are one thing - even though they claim to be good to go for five gallons, I tend to make a quart sized starter with White Labs tubes just to get 'em started and active. But with Wyeast, one smackpack per 5 gallons is ALL you need. I'll smack 'em when I start the brewday and place them somewhere at room temp, and 4-5 hours later when I'm ready to pitch, they're nicely swollen. Two of those into a 10 gallon batch, and you're all set.

 

[daksin]

I'm going to disagree. Just because it has enough yeast to ferment the batch, doesn't mean it's the proper amount of yeast to make the best beer. If you pitch a Wyeast smack pack in 5.5gallons of 1.055 you are pitching half the optimal amount of yeast. And that's assuming the smack pack is fresh; if it's a couple months old, you are underpitching by a factor of 4.

I don't care what the packaging says. The optimal pitch rate for 5 gallons of 1.055 wort is around 200-220 billion cells. A Wyeast smack pack contains roughly 100 billion viable cells. That's when it's fresh, that number declines rapidly over a few months.

This times 100. Wyeast and White labs are great yeast labs, but they are also a business. That means they (by definition) are trying to sell you as little yeast for as much money as they can.

Just because a vial is "sufficient" to make beer out of 5 gallons, does not mean that is the right amount to use. You can absolutely make beer with one smack pack and no starter, I have, you have, and tons of people do it every day, but you can't make great beer until you are pitching enough yeast for your requirements.

The one thing I do take issue with is the part that says "same pitch rate recommended by professional brewers." That is demonstrably false.

 

[Walker]

see... that's the problem. if you search for "optimal pitching rate", you find a lot of references to 0.5 million per mL per *P, some with 0.5-1 million per mL per *P, and a few with 1 million per mL per *P.

So, there is no consensus on it. There are individual voices.

0.5 vs 1 ... that makes a huge difference in the end, and would bring that previous quote of "200-220 billion cells" down to "100-110 billion cells", which would mean that a Activator pack would indeed be sufficient.

And the package does not say "same as commercial brewers". It says the rate is suggested by commercial brewers as optimal. Is it true? I don't know. But if your demonstration is that commercial brewers pitch more than that, it does not make the statement false. It just means that they are not trying to be optimal with their yeast and are over pitching.

I can tell you that changing the oil in your car every 5k miles is optimal. But if I change mine every 3k miles, it doesn't mean I made a false statement.

 

[Walker]

i'll bow out now. people are set in their ways.

There is nothing WRONG with making a starter. Do it if you want. The thing I get bothered by is the insistence that is MUST be done.

I was trying to present the OP with both sides of the story.

Glass vs plastic
stainless vs aluminum
starter vs no starter
ford vs chevy
tastes great vs less filling

these things will never be resolved.

 

[PoppinCaps]

I'll just say that I've had a few beers that stalled with activator packs, not sure of the production date on them, so that could have been the problem. But once I started making starters, even just a pint for the whole pack on the stir plate overnight, not a stall since, and very consistent, repeatable fermentation times.

This is a dead horse, but for me, it's just nice to have one more thing that I don't have to worry about. Yes, the activator pack will make great beers by itself, but be weary of the date on the package.

 

[scottland]

So, there is no consensus on it. There are individual voices.

0.5 vs 1 ... that makes a huge difference in the end

And I'll give you that. But go find out how many gold medals are won in the second round of the NHC without a starter. You'll be able to count the number on one hand.

 

[Walker]

And I'll give you that. But go find out how many gold medals are won in the second round of the NHC without a starter. You'll be able to count the number on one hand.

That's just because I haven't entered.

 

[mirage137]

I'm going to disagree. Just because it has enough yeast to ferment the batch, doesn't mean it's the proper amount of yeast to make the best beer. If you pitch a Wyeast smack pack in 5.5gallons of 1.055 you are pitching half the optimal amount of yeast. And that's assuming the smack pack is fresh; if it's a couple months old, you are underpitching by a factor of 4.

I don't care what the packaging says. The optimal pitch rate for 5 gallons of 1.055 wort is around 200-220 billion cells. A Wyeast smack pack contains roughly 100 billion viable cells. That's when it's fresh, that number declines rapidly over a few months.

This is pretty much what I was following, the optimal pitch rate of the gravity of beer I was making suggested around 200 billion cells. Since it said each smack pack yields around 100 billion, I pitched 2 packs. Low and behold I checked the beer today and it's already down to 1.013 so even though the activator wasn't really mixed in with the yeast seeds, everything worked out.

I looked into making starters but I guess I'm kind of confused in how pitching a smack pack (~100billion) or vial (~50-60 billion) into a 1L or 2L of wort would help yield enough yeast cells (200 billion+) for a certain gravity beer. For instance if I make a 2qt starter and 1 pack it yields ~180 billion cells but a 4qt starter and 1 pack yields ~240 billion cells. The calculations were done with the Brewzor Calculator on my phone.

Thanks for all the replies and information, I really appreciate it.

 

[scottland]

Mrmalty.com check out the pitch rate calculator. It has settings for which type of starter you make, size, growth rate, etc

 

[statseeker]

I used to just pitch the pack but after a few stalled ferments and higher than desired final gravities I started making starters. Havent had that problem since. They all finish at or below the expected final gravity. Repeatable and higher quality fermentations > Doing the easier thing in my opinion. If I'm at or under 1.050 and have a fresh pack, I have no qualms with pitching the pack. But barring those 2 conditions, there's just no reason not to be sure about yeast viability.

 

[rico567]

I agree with "walker" and "ubermick." I made a starter with the Propagators (now gone), but I've never made a starter with an Activator, and my beer ferments out just fine, great attenuation, and the resulting beer is fine. Results are what count, not appeal to authority.

My method for smacking the pack is to draw the pack down over the edge of something, like a kitchen counter. This lets the liquid yeast in the main pack go by, but traps the small nutrient pouch at the top, above the edge of the counter. This can be easily felt; once you've done it, it's no trick. Then a simple smack with the heel of the hand is plenty to break the pouch, and you're in business.

 

[mirage137]

This. White Labs are one thing - even though they claim to be good to go for five gallons, I tend to make a quart sized starter with White Labs tubes just to get 'em started and active. But with Wyeast, one smackpack per 5 gallons is ALL you need. I'll smack 'em when I start the brewday and place them somewhere at room temp, and 4-5 hours later when I'm ready to pitch, they're nicely swollen. Two of those into a 10 gallon batch, and you're all set.

Thats what I was wondering about with the white labs vials as well. I used a vial on my first batch of homebrew last year and didn't have a problem. I didn't know anything about starters at that time but I'd probably make a starter now when using the vials.

Using a yeast pitching rate calculator that says to pitch around 200-250 billion cells, would you still use 1 activator pack or go with 2? I've made 3 batches so far using either only 1 vial or pack and really didn't have any issues. I've made a stout twice so far, I'll have to use a calculator and see what it suggest for pitch rate. Hopefully it'll suggest for more than 1 pack or vial so that way I can compare to my previous experiences.

Thanks for the info everybody.

 

[brewsky54]

HELP!!! I thought when I activated my smack pack, that the yeast cells began their incubation....I heard a loud fizzing occur. I continued to brew my batch several hours later. When I cut open the package, I saw that my nutrient inner pack had not burst. I poured it in and crossed my fingers.

At the advice of a friend, I moved to 80 degrees to try to wake up the yeast the next day. After 72 hours I still have no bubbling in the airlock. I need some advice to save this delicious batch of Pumpkin goodness! Thanks in advance!

 

[Demus]

Ahh another starter vs direct pitch thread. I've been up drinking my Citra/Simcoe IPA watching football so I'll bite. Let's see, "I made a great beer and didn't make a starter". "If you made a starter it would have been even better". Does that about sum up the debate?
I too railed against the seemingly religious following starters seemed to have. I made some damn tasty brews without starters and didn't need someone telling me I was doing something wrong. As I've gained experience brewing I've realized both sides of this argument are "right". How can that be you ask? Well, you can make a great beer using either method. It all depends on the variables. The trouble is, as I've learned, is that you never really know for sure how all the variables are going to come together in the final product. Each variable you manipulate as a brewer has the potential to influence the flavor of your beer. That POTENTIAL doesn't mean it WILL influence your beer. Pitching yeast at the rate recommended by MrMalty or YeastCalc is just another variable. As a brewer you have to evaluate which variables are most important to control for the particular batch you are brewing. If you're a dogmatic "I always make a starter" brewer, it may be hard for you to let go of the fact that your 1.045 lawnmower beer would have been just as good direct pitched. If you're firmly against starters, do you really think your 1.090 DIPA will be the best it can be with 100 billion cells? Do you really want to just drop another 7 bucks if you don't? What will you do if 200 billion isn't enough, pitch a 3rd pack?
What's my point? Making a starter is a pretty simple way to increase the quantity of yeast in any form. Entire batches have been brewed from the dregs of a single bottle conditioned beer using multiple starters. A starter is just a tool in a brewers chest. It may make sense in certain situations, and skipped in others. The "argument" will indeed never be settled because there's way too many variables. There's no way to determine the exact cutoff where a certain number of yeast cells in a certain gravity brew will produce an inferior/superior beer. It is fair to say however that that cutoff does exist. It's unique to every batch and strain of yeast, but it's there. At some point of gravity and volume 100 billion cells won't get the job done well and either quit early, produce off flavors or both. If you dispute that, you probably haven't been brewing very long. Keep at it, and you'll learn that starters can be a valuable tool, but you don't have to use it every time....