Wyeast 3711 French Saison

[KraphtBier]

Heard, oats are out. You are correct, Melanoidin is for color and some mouthfeel. I really enjoy the Smuttynose Farmhouse beer and if I recall, it is quite cloudy. Thats where I got the idea to use the oats.

 

[KraphtBier]

Also, Ive never used rye before but I'm planning on adding 4oz of rice hulls to try and prevent any sticking. More, less, don't worry about it, whatcha think?

 

[smellysell]

I'd use more rice hulls if you have them. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Bensiff]

Saison yeast is really fine and takes a long time to clear from the beer so will provide some of the haze...not to mention rye or the traditional wheat will provide haze so don't worry about losing anything by dropping the oats. You are looking at under 10% rye so you should be fine...4 oz of rice hulls won't hurt anything and is cheap insurance though.

 

[petep1980]

Has anyone dry hopped a saison with Cascades? I think it might be a good fit.

 

[runs4beer]

Has anyone dry hopped a saison with Cascades? I think it might be a good fit.

Sure, we just kicked the keg of a 45 IBU all cascades saison (good to the last drop) dry hop with an oz., I think that 3711 works very well citrus/pine US hops.

 

[runs4beer]

Saison yeast is really fine and takes a long time to clear from the beer so will provide some of the haze...not to mention rye or the traditional wheat will provide haze so don't worry about losing anything by dropping the oats. You are looking at under 10% rye so you should be fine...4 oz of rice hulls won't hurt anything and is cheap insurance though.

Just curious, what is a long time to clear? My experience with this yeast is after it hits 1.004 to 1.000 the yeast flock like a brick, not your experience with it?

 

[B-Dub]

Just curious, what is a long time to clear? My experience with this yeast is after it hits 1.004 to 1.000 the yeast flock like a brick, not your experience with it?

Last week mine cleared long before I cooled it. Only about 14 days into primary at 75 deg.

BW

 

[Bensiff]

Just curious, what is a long time to clear? My experience with this yeast is after it hits 1.004 to 1.000 the yeast flock like a brick, not your experience with it?

I was going off of starter experience as I always cold crash and decant my starters. Normally my starters fall completely clear in a day, but after two days 3711 (only saison I've used) starters are still hazy. As far as a finished beer, I can't separate the wheat or rye protein haze from yeast so couldn't honestly say what's causing the haze in that situation.

 

[KraphtBier]

Finished up the brew last nite and pitched a 1-liter starter today. I pitched warmer (70ish) this time and plan to let the temperature ramp naturally to about 78. Thanks for all your help folks. Final recipe was as follows

Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Mash @ 152 for 75min (overshot my temp by a few degrees, I was aiming for 150)
O.G.~1.060
33 IBUs
70% Efficiency

10lbs American 2-row
1lb Rye Malt
5.4oz Melanoidin Malt
4.0oz Rice Hulls
4.0oz Light Brown Sugar (added 2 min before flameout)
0.5oz Sorachi Ace 10.6%aa (60 min)
0.5oz Sorachi Ace 10.6%aa (15 min)
Whirlfloc Tablet (15 min)
1.0oz Amarillo 8.2%aa (5 min)
Wyeast 3711 (1 Liter Starter)

 

[runs4beer]

I was going off of starter experience as I always cold crash and decant my starters. Normally my starters fall completely clear in a day, but after two days 3711 (only saison I've used) starters are still hazy. As far as a finished beer, I can't separate the wheat or rye protein haze from yeast so couldn't honestly say what's causing the haze in that situation.

I see, yea I crashed my starter and what I decanted was still hazy. But the 25% wheat I brew from that starter was crystal 2-3 days after force carbanation; no haze. BUT I did used Whirlfloc Tablets...

 

[29thfloor]

Total noob question: To those who are fermenting with this yeast in the 80-85 range how are you monitoring temps? I just have the stick on fermometers and they only go up to 78.

Right now I'm seeing a little color on the 78 which I would think puts the actual temp around 80-82. I had it lower for the first 24 hours but then let it warm up a bit.

 

[Bensiff]

Total noob question: To those who are fermenting with this yeast in the 80-85 range how are you monitoring temps? I just have the stick on fermometers and they only go up to 78.

Right now I'm seeing a little color on the 78 which I would think puts the actual temp around 80-82. I had it lower for the first 24 hours but then let it warm up a bit.

I believe the general consensus is that for this yeast that is too warm, you want it in a normal ale range moving into the low 70's. I use digital thermos instead of the stick on ones.

 

[runs4beer]

My best results have been achieved by pitching at 64° and letting it free rise up to no more than 78°, if the room temperature is 70-74° then it should behave well all on itself own, with no temperature control staying below 78°. That being said, I don't think 84° should be a problem (this yeast is rezelent) try to keep the temperature consistent through peek fermentation.

 

[chrisdb]

I''m drinking the 2nd batch from 3711 washed yeast. i may have over pitched because it went wild in the first 8 hours.
ny refractometer is saying that it's converted every molecule of sugar into alchohol. since this was supposed to be a 'session' beer the 8% abv was more than i expected from a of 1.060-ish FG. It is still very drinkable but I'm looking to tame this beast and get some of the belgian/ fruity notes.
I actually haver poured this 1/2 and topped up the glass with Leffe blonde and had a less potent but more satisfying ( for me) quaff.
I love the way this yeast works to convert the sugars but would like to hold it back some to keep a little residual sugars in the final product. would fermenting at lower temp ( say 55-60 F) and letting thd temps rise slowly give me a beer with a bit more hint of sweet-fruitiness?

 

[smokinghole]

I'm wondering if decoction mashing or a somewhat turbid mash would slow this beast down a little bit?

 

[Homebrewtastic]

I'm wondering if decoction mashing or a somewhat turbid mash would slow this beast down a little bit?

Nothing can slow down 3711. All we can do now is worship it on hopes that it will not too devour us when it's time for global domination is at hand.

All hail 3711!!!

 

[rasherb]

Finished up the brew last nite and pitched a 1-liter starter today. I pitched warmer (70ish) this time and plan to let the temperature ramp naturally to about 78. Thanks for all your help folks. Final recipe was as follows

Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Mash @ 152 for 75min (overshot my temp by a few degrees, I was aiming for 150)
O.G.~1.060
33 IBUs
70% Efficiency

10lbs American 2-row
1lb Rye Malt
5.4oz Melanoidin Malt
4.0oz Rice Hulls
4.0oz Light Brown Sugar (added 2 min before flameout)
0.5oz Sorachi Ace 10.6%aa (60 min)
0.5oz Sorachi Ace 10.6%aa (15 min)
Whirlfloc Tablet (15 min)
1.0oz Amarillo 8.2%aa (5 min)
Wyeast 3711 (1 Liter Starter)

Oooooohhhhh. Sorachi Ace. I see what you did there. Brilliant move!

 

[joety]

Nothing can slow down 3711. All we can do now is worship it on hopes that it will not too devour us when it's time for global domination is at hand.

All hail 3711!!!

Great, now I'll never get to sleep tonight. I'm going to go lock those cornies in the shed.

 

[Austin_]

Nothing can slow down 3711. All we can do now is worship it on hopes that it will not too devour us when it's time for global domination is at hand.

All hail 3711!!!

I for one welcome our new French overlords. What a delicious world it will be.

ETA: Though, unless the Napoleon is resurrected, the French have very little hopes of world domination.

 

[Bensiff]

I for one welcome our new French overlords. What a delicious world it will be.

And possibly smellier

I'm going to try doing a quad that uses around 25% 3711 and see if I can slow it down some while still getting a well attenuated brew.

 

[runs4beer]

And possibly smellier

My wife's joke was: are they sure it's french yeast; doesn't surrender or go on strike.

 

[ChshreCat]

And possibly smellier

And hairier.

 

[Cogent]

Looking forward to compare the Wyeast 3711 and the White Labs Saison II in the coming weeks. I'll post the stats in due time.

 

[bigbeergeek]

I'm brewing up a modest gravity saison (1.045) with 3711 this upcoming week. I plan on fermenting it at room temperature (75*F) and doing nothing to hold back the fermentation (no water bath, etc). Anyone ferment this thing that warm? Should I be concerned with solventy character at those temperatures? I'm afraid the wife might be a little pissed when she sees 3 fermentors in 3 water baths around the house (I'm brewing up 10 gallons of wit the same morning). Should I face he wrath to keep the temps in check, or will I get good saison character at 80 degrees?

 

[JLW]

My saison is one week bottle conditioned. I'm dying to try one.

 

[JaimeTheLimey]

I'm brewing up a modest gravity saison (1.045) with 3711 this upcoming week. I plan on fermenting it at room temperature (75*F) and doing nothing to hold back the fermentation (no water bath, etc)....

It will ferment fast and finish really low at that temp. (3711 finishes low even with cooler temps). Fermenting higher will definitely produce a lot more sulfur character and can smell pretty bad during fermentation. It will clean up with some conditioning.

 

[bigbeergeek]

It will ferment fast and finish really low at that temp. (3711 finishes low even with cooler temps). Fermenting higher will definitely produce a lot more sulfur character and can smell pretty bad during fermentation. It will clean up with some conditioning.

Seems like this yeast ferments fast and low at any temperature. I want bone dry, but I don't want solventy/hot alcohol or a month in the keg before it tastes good. I'm starting to lean toward taking the wrath for a water bath with frozen water bottles for the first five days...

 

[SaccharoVices]

Another lovely brew day, decided to try 3711 after all of the raves here-

10# Moravian Pils Floor Malt
.5# Acidulated Malt
.5# Belgian 17 degree pale

1oz Homegrown Sterling 60 minutes
.5oz Homegrown Saaz 30 minutes
.35oz Homegrown Saaz 10 minutes

1T yeast nutrient
.25t Super Irish Moss (Carageenan)

3.5 gallons strike water @165
mashed in @ 148, held 60 minutes
vorlaufed, added direct heat to raise mash to 154 30 minutes

sparged w/5 gallons @170

collected a bit over 7 gallons wort, boiled a total of 100 minutes

wort developed a nice toasty color

chilled, pitched 1.25l starter of vigorous 3711, 5.5 gallons in fermenter with blowoff tube

in ferm fridge @68F, will probably get up to low seventies from metabolic action

OG is 1.054, hope this one is a nice quencher for the fall


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/album.php?albumid=926

 

[Jboggeye]

A lot of people are asking what temps to ferment at. My experiments (will do more) about temps are that the lower temps produce less fruit and more phenolics. above 72ish, and you get more fruit.
that said, even though both beers are good and still very similar (split batch with different temps) the one at 65 to 70 is still alt better. Fruit is still there, but more refined, and mixes well.
Controlled temps can produce award winning beer for this yeast, while uncontrolled and hotter temps can produce good beer, but not as good...

As many of us, I was hoping that this yeast could be a "let it go" yeast, but it's much better if controlled...