Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes + Fusels

[Pintabone]

Question:

Has anyone had a similar experience with fusel alcohol flavors coming through even through temp control was set in the mid 60's? I think my issue was pitching the yeast at too high a temp due to very long time chilling wort after the boil.

See process below:

I just kegged my first Belgian Pale Ale yesterday. Had a pretty strong boozy flavor that I'm assuming is from fusel alcohols created during the fermentation.

Recipe was 6 lb Pilsner, 3 lb Munich and .75 lb Caramunich. Used Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes and made a 1.2 liter starter. OG 1.049.

I use a minifridge with a temp controller to control fermentation. I had it set for the first couple of days at 65 degrees with the probe attached to the outside wall of the Fermonster (thin PET carboy). Temp strip on the carboy also read consistent with the temp controller. Fermentation began within hours of pitching the yeast and was complete based on adjusted refractometer readings at 1.008 within about 3 days with a massive layer of krausen on top.

Important item to note is that it took me an hour to chill the wort after the boil and ended up pitching the yeast at about 74 degrees. I think this was my mistake and likely what contributed to the significant fusel flavor. Especially considering how quickly the fermentation appeared to be active.

Anyway, long story short, I'm wondering if anyone can confirm this thought or has had similar experiences in the past?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I brewed four batches with this yeast and didn't get noticeable fusels off any of them. That included at around 8% (Belgian IPA and a Dubbel). They were all pitched a couple of degrees cooler than, then warmed up to, ferment temperature.

 

[IslandLizard]

It usually takes about 12-36 hours for yeast to produce alcohol. I doubt your 74°F pitch would create a significant amount of fusels during those first 12 hours if placed inside a ferm chamber in the mid 60s. By that time the temps would have dropped to the preset. Check your controller/ferm chamber temps!

This yeast can shine at 70F in a medium gravity beer like yours. I keep her at 68F (1.060+) until around 50% fermented and let her go freely after that, or assist all the way up to 74F for a week. She can be clovey, maybe that's what you perceive as boozy?

 

[Pintabone]

It usually takes about 12-36 hours for yeast to produce alcohol. I doubt your 74°F pitch would create a significant amount of fusels during those first 12 hours if placed inside a ferm chamber in the mid 60s. By that time the temps would have dropped to the preset. Check your controller/ferm chamber temps!

This yeast can shine at 70F in a medium gravity beer like yours. I keep her at 68F (1.060+) until around 50% fermented and let her go freely after that, or assist all the way up to 74F for a week. She can be clovey, maybe that's what you perceive as boozy?

I am using a ported Fermonster so the taste that I took was the first 4 oz of the bottom of the fermenter. It has a bit of a rough smell to it as well. I kegged it and burst carbonated for a day and a half. Took a sample pour last night just to try and the smell was overwhelming. The taste isn't as bad as the smell and the boozyness that I tasted with that first sample seems to have decreased significantly.

I may have jumped the gun with the boozy taste but now I'm stuck on this smell. First few days during active fermentation within the chamber I didn't notice a significant nasty smell. In fact first gravity reading smelled fine. Few days after active fermentation was over I was introduced to this **** smell. Not sure if it's an uninvited guest or something else.

 

[IslandLizard]

Can you describe the smell a bit more precisely?

Was that Fermonster spigot kept sanitary? Those things can harbor bugs...

Your beer is also very green still, flavor/aroma may improve over a week or 2. My Belgian IPA got really good after 4 weeks in the keg, alas some hop aroma had faded.

 

[Pintabone]

Can you describe the smell a bit more precisely?

Was that Fermonster spigot kept sanitary? Those things can harbor bugs...

Your beer is also very green still, flavor/aroma may improve over a week or 2. My Belgian IPA got really good after 4 weeks in the keg, alas some hop aroma had faded.

Haha, my wife described it as smelling specifically like our dog's sh!t. I haven't had many Brett beers but had one over the weekend prior to trying this and the smell reminds me of that a bit. I'm going to look to pick up a Brett beer on the way home today to compare it to. Funky smell that did tend to dissipate as it sat in the glass. I agree it's early and young but with the way it ripped through the fermentation and now this smell has me concerned early. Plus I'm admittedly nuts and think about this way more than I should.

I do worry about the spigot. The rubber o-rings discolor easily but I do clean it in between use and soak the spigot in sanitizer before putting it back on the fermenter. I then fill the carboy with sanitizer again before filling.

 

[ba-brewer]

How many days after pitching yeast did you keg the beer? If you did not give it a few days after the major krausen dropped the yeast might not have had enough time to clean up fermentation by products.

I have done many beers with that yeast in the mid 60s and they were all quite clean(low clove and esters). Those beers went from grain to keg in a week to 10 days. I have also did a triple with that yeast in the low 70s without any harsh alcohol flavors or aroma.

Your times and observation seem pretty close to what I would expect with that yeast. I have also seen some people that say they have a hard time getting that yeast to finish up, but I have not experienced that problem.

 

[Pintabone]

How many days after pitching yeast did you keg the beer? If you did not give it a few days after the major krausen dropped the yeast might not have had enough time to clean up fermentation by products.

I have done many beers with that yeast in the mid 60s and they were all quite clean(low clove and esters). Those beers went from grain to keg in a week to 10 days. I have also did a triple with that yeast in the low 70s without any harsh alcohol flavors or aroma.

Your times and observation seem pretty close to what I would expect with that yeast. I have also seen some people that say they have a hard time getting that yeast to finish up, but I have not experienced that problem.

Pitched on Saturday 7/1 and kegged Sunday 7/16. So right around two weeks. Active fermentation was done within 3-4 days based on gravity reading. First reading I took was with both a refractometer and a hydrometer (first use of the refractometer) and both came out to 1.008. Didn't move from there. Krausen got to be upwards of like 5 inches high and eventually came down but a little bit of it did linger for awhile longer than prior brews.

 

[IslandLizard]

Haha, my wife described it as smelling specifically like our dog's sh!t. I haven't had many Brett beers but had one over the weekend prior to trying this and the smell reminds me of that a bit. I'm going to look to pick up a Brett beer on the way home today to compare it to. Funky smell that did tend to dissipate as it sat in the glass. I agree it's early and young but with the way it ripped through the fermentation and now this smell has me concerned early. Plus I'm admittedly nuts and think about this way more than I should.

I do worry about the spigot. The rubber o-rings discolor easily but I do clean it in between use and soak the spigot in sanitizer before putting it back on the fermenter. I then fill the carboy with sanitizer again before filling.

Damn! That's certainly not a smell we want in our beers. Butyric Acid, Isovaleric Acid, etc. are occasional but unwanted byproducts of fermentation while Enterobacteria can cause that characteristic diaper and sh!t smell. Brett can be dank and funky but is palatable, not off putting.

It's possible that spigot assembly could harbor bad bugs causing this.

Does that main spigot body separate into 2 pieces? Like the main body of bottling bucket spigots do after a brief soak in hot or boiling water, then pushed apart. You'd end up with two 3/4" plastic barrels that rotate into one another, allowing you to turn the spigot without loosening the nut inside. That narrow space between those 2 barrels is a major culprit of infections, as are the rubber washers and the threads. I always soak the separated parts in boiling PBW for 10-20 minutes, use a brush to clean, then rinse well and sanitize with Starsan. Assemble wet.

 

[ba-brewer]

Pitched on Saturday 7/1 and kegged Sunday 7/16. So right around two weeks. Active fermentation was done within 3-4 days based on gravity reading. First reading I took was with both a refractometer and a hydrometer (first use of the refractometer) and both came out to 1.008. Didn't move from there. Krausen got to be upwards of like 5 inches high and eventually came down but a little bit of it did linger for awhile longer than prior brews.

That is certainly enough time to finish up. A large krausen in normal for that yeast, I brew in buckets with an airlock and usually get over flows from the airlock onto the top of bucket. Very thick sour cream consistency stuff.

Your attenuation seemed a bit higher than I recall but when I checked my notes that is about the same as I got the last time I used that yeast. If the gravity did not change over a week and half that does not seem like what I would expect from an infection, unless the infection happened on transferring to the keg.

Here is a link to an experiment that someone did using the ardennes yeast maybe there is something in there that might help you figure out what happened, https://sciencebrewer.wordpress.com/2012/03/.


What do you use for brewing water, do you treat for chloramine and chlorine?
I recently had a couple beers (wlp029 and US-05)that had a slight funk, not over powering but I could tell there was something there that should not be there, maybe a little spicy clover flavor and aroma. I was using a new specialty grain on both brews and thought that might be the cause as everything else in my process was the same as usual. I took one of the beers into the LHBS to see if they could identify the flavor or cause and was lucky enough to stumble on a beer judge at the LHBS. The judge said he was getting a plastic flavor and suggested that maybe there was chloramine in my brew water and the grain had nothing to do with it. I got a tester and found that I did indeed have a very lower level of chloramine in my water so maybe he was right, but I still think the grain had something to do with the off-flavor but really dont know for sure.

 

[Pintabone]

Thanks for all the responses!

Does that main spigot body separate into 2 pieces?

I'll have to look at that. I never actually separated the body of the spigot but have loosened the plastic nut and washers to remove the spigot and clean everything.

That is certainly enough time to finish up. A large krausen in normal for that yeast, I brew in buckets with an airlock and usually get over flows from the airlock onto the top of bucket. Very thick sour cream consistency stuff.

Your attenuation seemed a bit higher than I recall but when I checked my notes that is about the same as I got the last time I used that yeast. If the gravity did not change over a week and half that does not seem like what I would expect from an infection, unless the infection happened on transferring to the keg.

Here is a link to an experiment that someone did using the ardennes yeast maybe there is something in there that might help you figure out what happened, https://sciencebrewer.wordpress.com/2012/03/.


What do you use for brewing water, do you treat for chloramine and chlorine?
I recently had a couple beers (wlp029 and US-05)that had a slight funk, not over powering but I could tell there was something there that should not be there, maybe a little spicy clover flavor and aroma. I was using a new specialty grain on both brews and thought that might be the cause as everything else in my process was the same as usual. I took one of the beers into the LHBS to see if they could identify the flavor or cause and was lucky enough to stumble on a beer judge at the LHBS. The judge said he was getting a plastic flavor and suggested that maybe there was chloramine in my brew water and the grain had nothing to do with it. I got a tester and found that I did indeed have a very lower level of chloramine in my water so maybe he was right, but I still think the grain had something to do with the off-flavor but really dont know for sure.

I use tap water and the only treatment that I've done thus far in my brewing is using campden tablets to remove the Chloramine / Chlorine. I haven't had this issue with 3 prior AG batches but clearly am still learning.

It definitely wasn't something that happened during transfer to the keg because I noticed the smell maybe 5 days into fermentation, prior to kegging and still after kegging.

I'll take a look at that link to see if I can come up with anything.