Wow mind boggling

[Yesfan]

.........
-Sweeten the cider when you serve it by cutting it with sprite or some kind of syrup (simple syrup works fine).

Adding table sugar will NOT help since it's a very simple sugar and the yeast will eat all of it so it gives you basically zero additional sweetness, just additional alcohol. Well, unless you add SO MUCH sugar that the alcohol the yeast produces knocks them out but that'll make for a strong drink and require a LOT of sugar.

Isn't simple syrup really 1:1 sugar and water? How would that work if the yeast are going to consume it?





My cider has been going on for almost two weeks now (and no, I haven't messed with it either ). Do you let fermentation finish all the way through or do you add potassium sorbate to stop fermentation to a desired FG? As for the back-sweetening, can you use apple juice? I thought about doing that and just keg it and carb, so does back-sweetening still matter with kegging?


This Thursday will be two weeks, so I thought I'd ask.

 

[Yooper]

Isn't simple syrup really 1:1 sugar and water? How would that work if the yeast are going to consume it?

Well, you pour your cider in the glass and then pour in the simple syrup- so the yeast won't consume it before you drink it....................

My cider has been going on for almost two weeks now (and no, I haven't messed with it either ). Do you let fermentation finish all the way through or do you add potassium sorbate to stop fermentation to a desired FG? As for the back-sweetening, can you use apple juice? I thought about doing that and just keg it and carb, so does back-sweetening still matter with kegging?

Most people let fermentation finish, as stopping an active fermentation is like stopping a freight train. Sorbate won't stop an active fermentation, as sorbate only keeps yeast from reproducing. Since reproduction happens very early, before active fermentation, adding sorbate won't do anything to inhibit the yeast, although it could stress them and cause some off flavors. Worse, if concurrent MLF occurs, adding sorbate to that means ruining the cider.

You can use whatever you'd like for sweetening- apple juice concentrate, sugar, honey, etc. It's not "back sweetening" though. Back sweetening is used incorrectly all the time on this forum (and it drives me nuts). "Back sweetening" means holding back a percentage of the must before fermentation by freezing it or otherwise preserving it, and then adding it after fermentation has ended and the cider has been stabilized. So if you were "back sweetening it", you would take the prefrozen unfermented cider you used at the beginning, and adding it "back" to sweeten and enhance it.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

As for the back-sweetening, can you use apple juice? I thought about doing that and just keg it and carb, so does back-sweetening still matter with kegging?

Only if you on bottling some and give it away if the bottles don't stay cold they could continue to ferment the sweetener and cause bottle bombs. Otherwise. No.

Potassium Sorbate won't stop the yeast from fermenting either. It will stop their reproduction of more yeast but it won't stop the yeast you already have present. You would need to filter the yeast out first and as stated above quite impractical on a Homebrew level.

 

[madscientist451]

One really important thing to know about homemade cider is that it's going to come out pretty sour. The yeast will go to town on the natural sugar in the juice and eat just about all of them and leave a pretty sour drink.

The level of "sour", as stated above, is dependent on several factors including the ripeness and type of apples used, the yeast selection, the fermenting temperature and the level of attenuation.
I've tried using very tart apples like Granny Smith and Northern spy, but the cider is just too tart (or sour) I've also tried using all dessert apples and the cider is ok, but kind of "blah" boring. My favorites for the 2015 season is a 10 apple cider using sweet, dessert and tart apples and yeasts that don't ferment all the way to dryness including Brewers best ciderhouse select, WL002, Saison yeast and just wild yeast.

 

[Yesfan]

Well, you pour your cider in the glass and then pour in the simple syrup- so the yeast won't consume it before you drink it....................

Didn't see where he mentioned cutting it....my bad

Most people let fermentation finish, as stopping an active fermentation is like stopping a freight train. Sorbate won't stop an active fermentation, as sorbate only keeps yeast from reproducing. Since reproduction happens very early, before active fermentation, adding sorbate won't do anything to inhibit the yeast, although it could stress them and cause some off flavors. Worse, if concurrent MLF occurs, adding sorbate to that means ruining the cider.

You can use whatever you'd like for sweetening- apple juice concentrate, sugar, honey, etc. It's not "back sweetening" though. Back sweetening is used incorrectly all the time on this forum (and it drives me nuts). "Back sweetening" means holding back a percentage of the must before fermentation by freezing it or otherwise preserving it, and then adding it after fermentation has ended and the cider has been stabilized. So if you were "back sweetening it", you would take the prefrozen unfermented cider you used at the beginning, and adding it "back" to sweeten and enhance it.

So basically, let it ride, then add the sorbate, then sweeten (not back sweeten) with choice of sweetener to taste? Three more. Can using other fruit juice concentrates (ex: cranberry) give you an apple/cranberry flavor? How much do you use? How long is a typical one gallon fermentation last?

Before you say it, I'm gonna go back and read the stickies in the cider section.


Thanks for the help and suggestions.

 

[Yooper]

So basically, let it ride, then add the sorbate, then sweeten (not back sweeten) with choice of sweetener to taste? Three more. Can using other fruit juice concentrates (ex: cranberry) give you an apple/cranberry flavor? How much do you use? How long is a typical one gallon fermentation last?

Before you say it, I'm gonna go back and read the stickies in the cider section.


Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Sure, you can do all of the above. I don't know what you mean about a typical one gallon fermentation last, though?

The thing with me personally is that I gave up sugar like 5 years ago, so I'm not the one to ask. (I don't even consume ketchup or BBQ sauce because of the sugar). So my answer for the amount is "0". I make lots of wine and ciders and meads- but always dry. I actually hate sweet things now, so anything I sweeten or leave with residual sweetness is for others, so I'm definitely not an expert on these things.

One thing that really helped me is to do a tasting. Take a sample of your cider, and then sweeten it a little, and then another a bit more. So, say you have four tiny samples, from less sweet to sweetest. Taste them, and see which you love the best. Then measure the SG. Ideally, you'd have something like: 1.004 1.010 1.014 and 1.016 as an example. If you love it at 1.014, then sweeten the entire batch to just under that SG. It just seems to get sweeter in the bottle (or keg) with a bit of time. So sweeten the entire batch to 1.012 or 1.013, as an example.

Taste here is huge- since I hate sweet things, any cider over about 1.004 would kill me. But many people find 1.004 hard cider bitingly dry. When I lived in Germany, many cider drinkers added sprite to their (nice) dry cider and that really is the best of both worlds- dry cider for the purists and those who don't like sweet things, and sweet and spritzy for those who do.

 

[Yesfan]

Thanks Yooper. I may give Sprite a shot. Sweetner and co2 in one.

 

[sethscider]

Absolutely agree! If you want cider don't make firewater! There is a time and place to add sugar but that should only be for specialty ciders not every single batch.

Whish i new this two days ago..

I just made 16 gallons of cider and added 2 pounds of suger per 6 gallon batch.

Do you guys think it will turn out alright?

 

[Yooper]

Whish i new this two days ago..

I just made 16 gallons of cider and added 2 pounds of suger per 6 gallon batch.

Do you guys think it will turn out alright?

It'll be very "boozy" and dry. I don't think I even use that much sugar in many of my apple wines. It might turn out very good, as an apple wine, with lots of time, but shouldn't have a ton of apple flavor or be "cider like".

 

[Firewalker11]

After following Yoopers thread on simple cider https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=508303 I found myself in the same boat with a very dry cider and little interest in drinking it because it was just too dry. The last four batches I made I tried four different methods of retaining or reintroducing some sweetness and found what works well for me.

The first batch used Nottingham and all crisp USA apples, OG was 1.058 and finished around 1.00, way too dry for me and I used Stevia to sweeten it back up. It was OK, we drank it but it was not ideal, it still had an "off" taste Stevia can give.

The second batch was Old Orchard Cranberry Pomegranate, 1.072 OG and finished around 1.010, again too dry for us but I had reserved a couple cans of frozen juice and added them back to the keg after racking it off once clear. Well, you can imagine that after bottling, the remaining yeast in the nicely clear cider still ate enough of the sugar to make more CO2 and the bottles form when opened even when very cold. Not a big deal, tasted good and there were no complaints.

The third batch was the same as the second, made and racked at the same time and was used to blend this batch with the second. This one got filtered while racking but what was left after blending remained in the keg and was tapped into glasses, the sweetness remained all throughout the keg and got good reviews by all.

The fourth batch (third pon-crann) was filtered once it hit 1.014 to stop it from fermenting any more but started with a 1.078 OG so it had some hints at sweetness before I added two cans of frozen concentrate back into the cider before filtering. This one is by far my favorite, it is darker due to the higher concentrate (OG) and the sweetness works well with the higher ABV.

Many ways to skin a cat but I just love to tinker and see what I can make with small tweaks!

Cheers!

 

[Yesfan]

As far as stopping fermentation, what about pasteurizing? If I bottle a couple off the keg, could I just put them in a sauce pan of water and heat the water to around 160-180 (<---whatever the correct temp is for pasteurization).


I know I'm going to keg it, but if it tastes good, I'd like to be able to take a bottle or two to my club meetings to share. I don't want it to be like a grenade going off if someone reaches for a pour.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

As far as stopping fermentation, what about pasteurizing? If I bottle a couple off the keg, could I just put them in a sauce pan of water and heat the water to around 160-180 (<---whatever the correct temp is for pasteurization).


I know I'm going to keg it, but if it tastes good, I'd like to be able to take a bottle or two to my club meetings to share. I don't want it to be like a grenade going off if someone reaches for a pour.

Yes you can pasteurize if you prefer to ensure no bottle bomb. That said though I doubt if you are drinking it the day you bottle it that you would need to. I would consider pasteurization if it's going to be sitting a few days or weeks otherwise I don't think I'd bother.

And yes you want around 160F for pasteurization

 

[Firewalker11]

We can our garden veggies but I have never pasteurized beer or cider, I dont know why but its just seems wrong for some indefensible reason.