would a "simple" H2O adjustment help?

[Zymurgrafi]

Okay, yes, yes, I know. There is nothing simple about water chemistry. However here is my situation and my proposed "solution"

When I brew hoppy pale beers (APA and IPA and sometimes amber/red) I will inevitably notice an astringancy/bitterness that is not desirable in the finish. This never happens with darker/maltier beers.

I have no idea what my local water profile is because my town does not provide this information. They only test for things like pcb's bacteria, lead, etc. No testing is done for overall taste/quality/hardness I have spoken directly to the plant manager.

So I have read what I can to understand what may be the problem. It would seem that perhaps I have a high level of carbonates, or is it bicarbonates? From what I have read this can cause this astringency/bitterness. My other clue is that when I mix starsan it will go cloudy after a few days, quicker if I do not get the water from the filter. I have a simple under the sink filter, not RO fwiw. I have read other folks reporting carbonates to be a cause of cloudy Starsan.

So, my proposed solution is this. Will adding a small amount of gypsum (which I can get at my LBS) or calcium chloride (which I cannot get) to the liquor help precipitate out some carbonates and or lower the mash pH?
say 1 tsp or so? Or am I completely way off track? I have considered getting a water test. Unfortunately the water source here can change from time to time so...

Any SIMPLE solutions or is water perhaps not even the issue?

 

[Zymurgrafi]

Alright everyone is afraid to open this pandora's box eh?

One more bit of info. I was thinking about it and realized that the astringency/bitterness only seems to affect HOPPY pale beers. I brew a simple american wheat beer which is of course pale. 50/50 wheat and barley, no specialty grains. IBU's are only about 24-26 whereas my APA is about 40 IBU's.

anybody?

 

[Laurel]

I'm not a brewing water genius, but you may find some information from getting a water test kit from your local pet supplier, or online, they're usually cheaper. It'll test your carbonate hardness (KH), your general hardness (GH) and your pH, at least those are the pertinent pieces of information for brewing.

Aquarium Water Testing: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals GH/KH Test Kit
Aquarium Water Testing: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals pH Test Kits

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

I think I'm in the same boat as you. Red's, Stouts, Wheats, etc all come out quite well. But the IPA's, ESB's, Pale Ale's in general all have a unwanted bittery, tannin flavor. I've got pretty hard tap water. Thought using 5.2 would help, not really. I'm about to send a water sample off to Ward Labs for a test.

 

[WortMonger]

Have you guys ever pre-boiled your brewing water and racked off the sediment? I was really surprised and got a cup of solids from 14-15 gallons of boil water. But... best APA to date.

 

[Zymurgrafi]

WortMonger,

Did you add anything to precipitate out the solids or just boil as is?

How long did you boil? Have to boil extra for evaporation?

 

[drew91]

FWIW I used 12 gallons of DI water (mixed with another 2 gallons of tap) for an IPA last weekend because Austin's water is almost 500ppm bicarbonate and has a pH around 10. I also added 18g of gypsum for the calcium and to lower the pH some. The gravity sample tasted awesome, so I'm optimistic that it will turn out well.

When I started reading up on manipulating the strike water chemistry I came across this link, which I found really helpful.
Homebrewing and water quality

 

[Zymurgrafi]

I'm not a brewing water genius, but you may find some information from getting a water test kit from your local pet supplier, or online, they're usually cheaper. It'll test your carbonate hardness (KH), your general hardness (GH) and your pH, at least those are the pertinent pieces of information for brewing.

Laurel, thanks i will look into that as i do have an aquarium/fish store in town. Have you done this yourself? Did it help?

 

[dasein668]

You could also get your water tested. Ward Labs. The test is pretty reasonable. Under 20 bucks, I think.

Without knowing what's in your water, it's hard to know what the best course of action is, though folks can make some educated guesses, of course. Good luck!

 

[Zymurgrafi]

as I mentioned earlier, I have thoughtabout getting my water tested. Unfortunately as I also mentioned, the water source changes from time to time. It comes from a "pond" which is fed by surface and ground water. Also there is a storage tank on the other side of town. Not sure when or if they draw from it?

 

[pjj2ba]

I'm in the same boat, and had the same problems and I like to do light lagers so the astringency really stuck out (note past tense). My Starsan goes cloudy almost immediately. First, call you water supplier and try to talk to someone in the lab. They are doing a complete analysis, they just don't routinely publish all of the details. That's what I did.

You can boil the water and then let it settle. This works well, but I personally just can't justify boiling 7 gal of water, only to boil it again later. The time, the fuel, etc. I've taken to using pickling lime (Calcium hydroxide) which will instantaneously precipitate the carbonates as chalk. You have to be a little careful as this messes with your pH. I check my pH after mashing in and add 5.2 buffer if necessary. For my water about 1 tsp/ 6 gal. is just about right. I let my water settle overnight and then carefully drain it off. If your water is low in calcium, you may need to add some back to compensate for what was lost in the precipitate (I don't have this problem)

By doing this I have made a large improvement in the smoothness of the bitering in my beers.

 

[dasein668]

as I mentioned earlier, I have thoughtabout getting my water tested. Unfortunately as I also mentioned, the water source changes from time to time. It comes from a "pond" which is fed by surface and ground water. Also there is a storage tank on the other side of town. Not sure when or if they draw from it?

Meh, sometimes me don't reed two good.

Sorry man!

 

[Brian S]

Just buy bottled water for one batch. See if it helps. If it does you know you have a water problem.

 

[Zymurgrafi]

AHA! I think...

I was doing a bit of searching today and found a powerpoint presentation online from my town about the water system upgrades they are planning.

Among the information I dug through was this:

Hardness 70-90 ppm as CaCO3
Alkalinity 120 ppm as CaCO3
iron < 0.1 ppm
Manganese 0.02-0.3 ppm

that's it, but it's more than I could get talking to the plant manager.

Unfortunately it was 2 years ago and it was stated as being from "raw water" which I presume was pre-treatment. So, perhaps it is null and void after it gets through treatment?

Now, what does this tell me? Anything?

 

[WBC]

Rather than fighting to find out how to treat your water in the here and now you should find a good source of water that will brew good beer. Once you have that going for you I would find out by testing what your water is made of and also what you want it to be. Then you can plan a course of action to either treat the water or get it from another source. Sometimes it seems an uphill battle but I think you will feel much better if you could brew good beer while you are getting this sorted out.