• Please visit and share your knowledge at our sister communities:
  • If you have not, please join our official Homebrewing Facebook Group!

    Homebrewing Facebook Group

Wort chillers

Homebrew Talk

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I have to assume that the hops in these brews are free and not in a filtered container of some sort?

They didn't specify, but I would think that if the hops are exposed to hot wort, whether free or within some container (e.g., hops bag), that the hops alpha acids will continue to be isomerized and thus, add to bittering. The utilization factor may be somewhat lower for the hops in the container, but isomerization will nonetheless continue until the wort cools to below around 170-180F.
 
IME, it makes more sense to use a wort chiller than to NOT use one. I can get my batches down from 195F (post whirlpool) to pitch temperature (or about 60F) in a handful of minutes. No waiting overnight crap. No dealing with a HOT fermenter while moving it. No other worries around anything related to how long before the temperature is at a safe level for the yeast.

I went from chilling the batch in the kitchen sink, to an immersion chiller, to using a plate chiller. To date, the plate chiller has the fastest chill time. About 5-7 minutes to chill my 8-10 gallons of wort going into the conical. No dealing with putting a chill coil into the kettle, or anything like that. I can't imagine NOT using a wort chiller at this point.

My first IC was pretty cheap. Ugly, but cheap. I tried to make a larger one, but that was simply an epic failure (coil was a mess and didn't do any better than the first one even with going from 25' of copper to 50' of copper tubing). I'm getting ready to get a new plate chiller that has more than double the surface area to it than my current one. I can only imagine how fast I'll get the chilled wort into fermenter with that (for my current batch sizes).

With the OP being somewhere in Europe, I have no idea what's available for purchase. I expect the low max spend expressed in the opening post will be more of a limiting factor than anything else.

I look at the hardware I'm either using, or looking at, with the same mind as many other things I purchase. Good, fast, or cheap, pick two. If it's good and fast, it won't be cheap. If it's good and cheap, it won't be fast. I look for efficiencies where it makes sense. A wort chiller is a win in my book.
 
Hi people thank you all for the comments and reasoning behind wort chilling. The consensus is quite clear wort chillers are a benefit to the process so I will definitely be using one in my brewing... once I have made it :D
 
Hi people thank you all for the comments and reasoning behind wort chilling. The consensus is quite clear wort chillers are a benefit to the process so I will definitely be using one in my brewing... once I have made it :D
Unfortunately copper prices are outrageously high now and this won't get any better. I live next door to a massive copper mine and the local administrators tell me that with all the electric vehicles coming on to the market the demand for copper is outstripping the supply. You should have built it 5 years ago.
 
Unfortunately copper prices are outrageously high now and this won't get any better. I live next door to a massive copper mine and the local administrators tell me that with all the electric vehicles coming on to the market the demand for copper is outstripping the supply. You should have built it 5 years ago.

I won't lie to you I am a Scot living in France in retirement and am comfortable but being a Scot I can see a rip off and €80 for a bit of coiled 10mm annealed copper tube is a rip off šŸ˜‚ . I can buy a 5m (approx 17ft) roll together with the correct connectors for €30 from my local DIY store coil it round a pot of the correct diameter and the job is done.

In other news after careful consideration I am just going headlong into an all in one system, life is too short and I can buy one that gets favourable reviews for €370 It is a Brewster Beacon 40L I have seen others that are within 20 to 30 € of this one but in honesty... I think they are exactly the same thing with a different name transfer šŸ˜‚ ??
edit
My first lot of beer is going to be very expensive but gets progressively cheaper there after and being a Scot I like that šŸ˜‚ However just to set the record straight we Scots are not really as mean as made out... we are just careful with our money šŸ˜‚
 
With or without, you will have beer.

Benefits are:

1. Locks in beer profile better. For example, DMS production still occurs in warm wort for a while after boiling.

2. Hop utilization changes, for example your flavor hop additions may become bittering hops if wort is kept hot. So it changes the flavor profile a bit.

3. Speeds up the time from boiling to finishing up and pitching yeast. Also you can clean up all equipment the same day.

4. Cools it sufficiently to get it safely in a carboy or bucket. Remember plastics can leach chemicals at elevated temperatures.

5. Puts you in the safe zone to reduce possibility of microbes spoiling a beer. You want the yeast in control of the wort, not unwanted microbes. Getting it down to pitching temperatures closes the infection window.

6. Helps produce cold break material out of the wort which can produce off flavors during fermentation. You can separate much of this from the wort at time of transfer for better tasting beers.

7. Water can be run off to a plant bed for watering purposes without waste.

Prost!
 
Last edited:
Just a thought - does a wort chiller have to be made of copper? I’d heard something about copper being a yeast nutrient but I can’t imagine my wort chiller is being slowly dissolved in each batch of wort anyway. The chiller that came with my Anvil foundry doesn’t appear to be copper. Looks more like stainless. So if copper is crazy expensive is there another rolled metal like stainless tubing you could make one from for less?
 
Just a thought - does a wort chiller have to be made of copper? I’d heard something about copper being a yeast nutrient but I can’t imagine my wort chiller is being slowly dissolved in each batch of wort anyway. The chiller that came with my Anvil foundry doesn’t appear to be copper. Looks more like stainless. So if copper is crazy expensive is there another rolled metal like stainless tubing you could make one from for less?

SS chillers are available commercially, but good luck DIY!

Aluminum? šŸ¤”
 
I won't lie to you I am a Scot living in France in retirement and am comfortable but being a Scot I can see a rip off and €80 for a bit of coiled 10mm annealed copper tube is a rip off šŸ˜‚ . I can buy a 5m (approx 17ft) roll together with the correct connectors for €30 from my local DIY store coil it round a pot of the correct diameter and the job is done.

In other news after careful consideration I am just going headlong into an all in one system, life is too short and I can buy one that gets favourable reviews for €370 It is a Brewster Beacon 40L I have seen others that are within 20 to 30 € of this one but in honesty... I think they are exactly the same thing with a different name transfer šŸ˜‚ ??
edit
My first lot of beer is going to be very expensive but gets progressively cheaper there after and being a Scot I like that šŸ˜‚ However just to set the record straight we Scots are not really as mean as made out... we are just careful with our money šŸ˜‚
The all in one electric systems (if thats what you’re talking about) are great.

The 40L one might require more power. I know the electrical systems in Europe are different from ours here in the US. Our standard household current is 110 volts and these larger systems usuallly need to run on a 220v outlet, essentially a double circuit. Not everybody here has those in their homes and that kind of thing normally requires installation by a licensed electrician.
 
does a wort chiller have to be made of copper?
Copper conducts energy better, more malleable so easier to work with. When it comes to such a short distance though (thickness of stainless steel tubing) I wouldn't think it matters much.
 
SS chillers are available commercially, but good luck DIY!

Aluminum? šŸ¤”
I wouldn't use aluminum for an IC. Copper or stainless are the only viable options IMO.

Something to keep in mind. When I used the IC, with cold ground water (winter in New England) I could chill a 5 gallon batch size (less than 6 gallons in the kettle) in 15-20 minutes (25' of copper). With the plate chiller, that's down to less than five minutes. Don't forget that I'm using a 12" wide, 40 plate chiller for this. If you use a shorter, and lower plate count, your chill time will change. Ground/chill water temperature will also play a part. Putting a ball valve at the plate chiller output so that I could control the flow rate also seriously helps to reach target temperatures. Even if I blast hot wort through the chiller initially (for sanitary reasons, even though it's clean and sanitized) I get the full volume in fermenter at/under my target temperature.

One thing you should be aware of with plate chillers, If you dump your hops directly into the kettle (no hop spider) you'll be better off doing a whirlpool so that you don't run hop matter through the chiller. It WILL clog it up on you. Had that happen one time with the keggles. I have been using a wort strainer for more than a few batches, but think I can remove it now that I have less matter in the kettle at the end. I might use it for my IPA recipe due to using about double the amount of hops for my other recipes (or more than double).

From what others post up about counterflow chillers, plate chillers beat them for cooling performance/speed. Benefit of a counterflow is almost no risk of getting clogged with hop matter. Not to say there's a zero chance, but it's far less. I still love the plate chiller since it's mounted onto my brew stand, making it easy to store and use when needed. Even the one I'm ordering to replace it will be mounted to the brew stand (same location).

IF you have tools to make things, go for it. Do keep in mind, the copper tubing, even when annealed, can be a pain to coil up nicely. Many (myself included) use a corny keg to wrap them around. When you bend the ends for the chill water, make sure you don't kink the tubing. There are tools available to help bend the tubing (pretty cheap for the spring type IIRC). If you're confident you could also solder fittings onto the ends to make connecting the chill water more secure. Just be sure to test out the solders really well (max water flow through the tubing). You could try a pressure test as well, where you plug the outlet and put water into the IC so that it's at max water pressure from your feed for a while. It shouldn't fail since it's designed for such pressures. I would do that several days before you expect to use it. Nothing sucks more than to have to move your brew day out due to having a hardware issue come up on brew day (or the day before).

IIRC, with an immersion chiller, you'll get better chill times if you also move the chiller in the wort to increase the contact with the wort your cooling. Again, more work/effort to get a fraction of the performance of the two other chiller types. If you don't mind the longer chill times, and more work, then go for it. Personally, I like being able to just watch the thermometer on the wort out port of the plate chiller as it flows into the fermenter. I also infuse oxygen into the wort at the same time.
 
IIRC, with an immersion chiller, you'll get better chill times if you also move the chiller in the wort to increase the contact with the wort your cooling.

Most definitely. With my water bath I keep a handspun whirlpool going for the same reason. Also keep the tap water the sink moving too. What used to take 2+hrs !!! without moving the wort, now takes about half as long. Labor intensive indeed.
 
Most definitely. With my water bath I keep a handspun whirlpool going for the same reason. Also keep the tap water the sink moving too. What used to take 2+hrs !!! without moving the wort, now takes about half as long. Labor intensive indeed.
So one hour instead of two?? What batch size? I typically get chill times of 5-7 minutes for 8-10 gallons going into fermenter.
 
So one hour instead of two?? What batch size? I typically get chill times of 5-7 minutes for 8-10 gallons going into fermenter.

4 gallons post-boil, summer in Missouri. It's a bit better this time of year.

ETA: From boil to ~100F it's really fast, maybe 20m. It's the rest of the way that takes so long.

To be clear, I'm not nor would I ever argue the benefits of a water bath over any other chilling method. It's a pain in the arse. But that timing is why to some brewers an IC would be a godsend.
 
Last edited:
The all in one electric systems (if thats what you’re talking about) are great.

The 40L one might require more power. I know the electrical systems in Europe are different from ours here in the US. Our standard household current is 110 volts and these larger systems usuallly need to run on a 220v outlet, essentially a double circuit. Not everybody here has those in their homes and that kind of thing normally requires installation by a licensed electrician.

Yes we are on 230V and these gizmo's are 2500W . You know I have looked at three different brands Brew Monk, Brewster and Klarstein and the differences are so little you would believe they are the same things with different logos I am honestly struggling to pick a winner the specs are near identical and I will put money on it they are all made in China... what isn't these days ?? šŸ˜‚ Don't want to start another thread on the subject though anybody got any ideas remembering I live in Europe.
 
Well I am not looking for a fight :D But why would you need 50 ft of copper tube to chill a 25 -35 L batch of beer? I have the remains, perhaps 5-6m, of a 50m roll of 16mm od annealed copper tube which coiled will give 5 coils and connection tails that will easily cool off 25L of wort at 100C but more than that I can buy a 5m roll of 10mm annealed copper tube for 25€ .

What I want to know is that for the very base brewer is there really an appreciable reason to spend money on a wort cooler? I do not know how much you pay for malt and hops but I can make a hell of a lot of beer for €80 that is the cheapest one I could find.
However that is not what I am seeking I am asking the question is this chiller really an addition that will make a small volume beer brewers beer more drinkable? In an blind testing would I know the difference? I read on my suppliers website that the reason to have one was to chill the wort quickly and reduce the chance of infection... I do not go along with that at all. I understand why big brewers use them time is money and the sooner you get another brew on the better!
There is absolutely no correlation with a homebrewers needs in that respect.

5m, that's what, a bit over 15 feet? It will take a while to chill a 5 gallon batch. A longer coil would be much better. I would at least double that. 50 feet is good. You get plenty of heat transfer, and use less water. For such a short coil you would probably want a second coil immersed in an ice water bath to cool the hot cooling water, and a pump to cycle it. No savings there! Except maybe saving water.

My own opinion is that a chiller is worth it uniess you are going the Australian no-chill method. An HDPE "cube" jug, 5 gallon size. Fill it all the way to the top with hot wort. squeeze so there is no air in it at all, cap it, and forget it for 24 hours. Many brewers would recommend an extended boil time to get rid of DMS precursors. Some say don't bother. Anyway this keep the air off your wort while it is vulnerable. Make your starter when you transfer to the no-chill cube so it is good and vigorous when you are ready to transfer wort to fermenter and pitch yeast. That way nothing much can compete with those billions of yeasty cells.

Bad batches happen. But when you make a good effort at doing everything according to accepted best practices, they are rare. If you just go for it, and don't sweat the small stuff very much, bad batches are still rare but will happen more often than when you keep everything as close to perfect as practical. Of COURSE you can brew without a chiller. And I don't mean the "no-chill" method of chilling in a jug with the air squeezed out, either. I mean just leaving it in the kettle until cool enough to put in the fermenter, and leaving it there until cool enough to pitch yeast. It has been done a million times. Doing it that way or not doing it that way is your decision. You know the costs, and you know the risks. Your beer.

My batches to date have been mostly with an immersion coil, 50 foot, copper. My very first batches were kits and I used the ice water bath method, then I bought the coil. It cost about the same as buying 50' of copper tubing and it was already formed. One time I forgot to put the coil in the wort while it was still boiling and I went to the store and bought a couple blocks of dry ice and dumped in. Buy that was fun. Probably no need since it was still hot enough to sanitize the coil, I think, and anyway I was a half hour going to the nearest store and back that had dry ice. But it was really cool when the neighbors saw the thick fog rising from my bubbling cauldron! My next batch will be no-chill and I have high expectations for it.

A good HDPE jug that is food safe and is safe to pour hot wort into, is probably going to be a lot cheaper and less trouble than a coil, so if you must save money, that might be the way forward. Not doing anything but letting it cool overnight can work but will increase your slim chances of infection. I consider it the way back as opposed to the way forward. A nice vigorous one quart (one liter to you!) starter of the same gravity as your wort more or less, will help reduce your chances of a bad infection, should you decide to go old school. But I wouldn't even bother with a 15 foot coil. It will take forever and use up a lot of water.
 
5m, that's what, a bit over 15 feet? It will take a while to chill a 5 gallon batch. A longer coil would be much better. I would at least double that. 50 feet is good. You get plenty of heat transfer, and use less water. For such a short coil you would probably want a second coil immersed in an ice water bath to cool the hot cooling water, and a pump to cycle it. No savings there! Except maybe saving water.

My own opinion is that a chiller is worth it uniess you are going the Australian no-chill method. An HDPE "cube" jug, 5 gallon size. Fill it all the way to the top with hot wort. squeeze so there is no air in it at all, cap it, and forget it for 24 hours. Many brewers would recommend an extended boil time to get rid of DMS precursors. Some say don't bother. Anyway this keep the air off your wort while it is vulnerable. Make your starter when you transfer to the no-chill cube so it is good and vigorous when you are ready to transfer wort to fermenter and pitch yeast. That way nothing much can compete with those billions of yeasty cells.

Bad batches happen. But when you make a good effort at doing everything according to accepted best practices, they are rare. If you just go for it, and don't sweat the small stuff very much, bad batches are still rare but will happen more often than when you keep everything as close to perfect as practical. Of COURSE you can brew without a chiller. And I don't mean the "no-chill" method of chilling in a jug with the air squeezed out, either. I mean just leaving it in the kettle until cool enough to put in the fermenter, and leaving it there until cool enough to pitch yeast. It has been done a million times. Doing it that way or not doing it that way is your decision. You know the costs, and you know the risks. Your beer.

My batches to date have been mostly with an immersion coil, 50 foot, copper. My very first batches were kits and I used the ice water bath method, then I bought the coil. It cost about the same as buying 50' of copper tubing and it was already formed. One time I forgot to put the coil in the wort while it was still boiling and I went to the store and bought a couple blocks of dry ice and dumped in. Buy that was fun. Probably no need since it was still hot enough to sanitize the coil, I think, and anyway I was a half hour going to the nearest store and back that had dry ice. But it was really cool when the neighbors saw the thick fog rising from my bubbling cauldron! My next batch will be no-chill and I have high expectations for it.

A good HDPE jug that is food safe and is safe to pour hot wort into, is probably going to be a lot cheaper and less trouble than a coil, so if you must save money, that might be the way forward. Not doing anything but letting it cool overnight can work but will increase your slim chances of infection. I consider it the way back as opposed to the way forward. A nice vigorous one quart (one liter to you!) starter of the same gravity as your wort more or less, will help reduce your chances of a bad infection, should you decide to go old school. But I wouldn't even bother with a 15 foot coil. It will take forever and use up a lot of water.

It is just short of 17 ft and by the time the fitting sections are fitted you can ad another two ft ... and that is all I am going to use.

edit. I have a 4m length of 16mm which I think I may splice into the first few coils then finish with the 10mm I will see how I feel about that though
 
Last edited:
Personally I think how fast you flow the water through it will make a big difference on how long it needs to be. As will the initial temp of that water. So there isn't one right length for everyone. Once the water picks up all the heat it can, then any remaining tube is useless.
 
Agreed. But with the water flow set so the final half-inch of tube is at wort temp, a longer tube will chill faster than a small one. Contact area and all.
 
Personally I think how fast you flow the water through it will make a big difference on how long it needs to be. As will the initial temp of that water. So there isn't one right length for everyone. Once the water picks up all the heat it can, then any remaining tube is useless.

The edition of the 16mm could be a good thing it has three times the surface area of 10mm and three times the volume of water. But someone with a good handle on thermodynamics could shine further light? My brews initially will be in a large stock pot and if I find I can make decent beer that way I will move to a all in one kit. I would do that straight off but if I find my beer is not what I thought I would get flavour wise I may just stick at that šŸ˜‚ When I first made beer back in the early 80's my beer was generally far better than the stuff I could buy in many of the pubs around Edinburgh... but there were some pretty rotten beers on sale then with a few exceptions like Caly, Macalys and Belhaven. Now in Edinburgh you can get some great beer .
 
The all in one electric systems (if thats what you’re talking about) are great.

The 40L one might require more power. I know the electrical systems in Europe are different from ours here in the US. Our standard household current is 110 volts and these larger systems usuallly need to run on a 220v outlet, essentially a double circuit. Not everybody here has those in their homes and that kind of thing normally requires installation by a licensed electrician.
Here in France household electricity is 220v , 50hz. But big things like ovens do require different circuitry that I don't understand at all
 
I made a 3/8"(10mm)ID 20 foot(6m)copper IC for $25. It chills my 5.5 gallon batches just fine. Typically 200F to 100F in ten minutes, that's with just water at ground temperature, roughly 65F year round. Have been tossing the idea around to recirculate into an ice bath once to 100F to speed things along the rest of the way.
 
Here in France household electricity is 220v , 50hz. But big things like ovens do require different circuitry that I don't understand at all


The thing about electricity generation in France is that most of the electricity generated comes from nuclear power stations. That is why in France you actually sign up to a set level of wattage entering the house. For example our house has a 9kw max draw anything more than that trips the breaker. It has to be that way because the power suppliers have to know what the max demand will be... nuclear is like that it takes time to ramp it up. Things like cookers draw a lot of current and have to be on their own circuit. The higher the level of incoming wattage the higher the cost of the agreement. An all in one system would be fine at my house it is on par with an electric kettle wattage wise less than 2kw. It is weird for example we could not have an electric shower and our hot water storage heater is 600W and takes all night, about 5hrs, to reheat while we sleep when electricity is cheaper... I hesitate to say cheap... sorry thread drift ! šŸ˜‚
 
Back
Top