Wort chiller or fermentation cooler?
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kev211
Well-Known Member
Fermentation chamber/cooler. It will (at least in my experience) vastly improve the quality of your beer. Wort chillers are a convenient thing to have, but arent necessary. I have one, but Ive found that more and more I am making a push towards no chill to cut down time on my brew day. Just my 2cents
+1^
MagicMatt
Brewmathemagician
Just curious, how does "no chill" cut down on time? If anything it would seem to add time, as now you're waiting several hours for your wort to chill to pitching temps. Also, I would imagine the thermal shock from putting near boiling (or even >150°F) wort into a glass carboy would stress it to the point of breaking. Is this not the case?
Maybe you're using a different wort chiller than I am (I use a CFC), but it adds no time to my brew day to chill, as it happens inline while I am transferring to the carboy, which has to happen anyway.....
I think both are instrumental for making good beer, but since you have to choose one, I'll say go with the ferm chamber. You can always borrow a chiller from a friend for brew day until you buy/make your own.
I know the brewers down under just pour their hot wort into plastic jugs and let cool
they store theirs for weeks and month so I have read
I no chill in the colder months here and leave it in the boil kettle with the lid on to cool
then dump it to my fermenter then pitch
for me it is a water thing not time I have dug wells so I have to careful
all the best
S_M
horaceunit
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I'm not sure I get the question. Isn't a wort cooler (chiller) and a fermentation chamber two different things? A wort chiller is used to rapidly cool wort from near boiling to yeast pitching temperature as quickly as possible. A fermentation chamber, or cooler, is generally a temperature controlled chest freezer or refrigerator (and lots of DIY variants) to maintain fermenting wort at a constant temperature. I guess you could have a large cooler that you put ice into and place the boiled wort into to cool it as quickly as possible. Some people use a sink for this as well. If I misconstrued the question I apologize!
kev211
Well-Known Member
I have an immersion chiller. It saves time because I dont have to sit there actively stirring my chiller until its down to pitching temps (we're also in a major drought here, so less water wasted is a good thing. But thats another topic...)
What I left out since it wasnt completely pertinant to the OP's question (since he still has more options than no chill) is, I do use a chiller for a few minutes to bring the wort down from boiling to "non-thermal shock temps" (and use the warm water to clean my stuff) OR I know some people put the kettle aside in the garage,ferm chamber or what have you, while still covered and wait for it to cool. In my case, I can chill it pretty rapidly to the point where it wont destroy my carboy, put it in my ferm chamber and come back a couple hours later when its reached pitching temps and dump the yeast in.
MagicMatt
Brewmathemagician
Ah I see now. I've only ever used a CFC from day 1, so no experience with an IC. Didn't realize you have to stand there and stir it.
Not to jack the thread or go too far
, but since you mentioned the water issue, I would suggest using a tub filled with ice water and recirculating that instead of using a hose. I found I have to do this when brewing in the hot summers here as the ground water is a bit too warm (75-80°F). The only extra equipment you would need is a submersible pump.
To the OP, I agree that a Fermentation chamber is more likely money better spent. It will have more influence over the quality of the finished beer. On a side note, you can build your own counter-flow chiller for about $40 if you can solder, or about $60 using compression fittings (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9395).
Not to jack the thread or go too far
, but since you mentioned the water issue, I would suggest using a tub filled with ice water and recirculating that instead of using a hose. I found I have to do this when brewing in the hot summers here as the ground water is a bit too warm (75-80°F). The only extra equipment you would need is a submersible pump.To the OP, I agree that a Fermentation chamber is more likely money better spent. It will have more influence over the quality of the finished beer. On a side note, you can build your own counter-flow chiller for about $40 if you can solder, or about $60 using compression fittings (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9395).
What you are missing from the OP is that he can only afford one or the other right now. I'll cast another vote for the ferm chamber. There are other (possibly better) options for chilling wort, but a ferm chamber is the best way of controlling fermentation temps.
I was leaning towards the chamber since no matter what room I put it in my house I can't keep the temperature consistent and in the winter it's near impossible to keep it above 60 during the day once we turn the heat off.
I think I'll get a chest freezer and build it this weekend.
Thanks
I think I'll get a chest freezer and build it this weekend.
Thanks
that is what I vote for also, post on here all the time about fermenting to warm
that is why before I even thought about brewing I lined up a chest freezer and even then
I forget to check all the settings on my STC 1000 so the deference between the temp I wanted and the temp that turn the freezer was too much
so my first brew had a slight touch of butter taste
all the best
S_M
kev211
Well-Known Member
Ah I see now. I've only ever used a CFC from day 1, so no experience with an IC. Didn't realize you have to stand there and stir it.
Not to jack the thread or go too far
To the OP, I agree that a Fermentation chamber is more likely money better spent. It will have more influence over the quality of the finished beer. On a side note, you can build your own counter-flow chiller for about $40 if you can solder, or about $60 using compression fittings (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9395).
Yeah, you can just set it in and run water but eventually it cools the area immediately surrounding the chiller and loses effectiveness. So in hindsight, probably should have purchased a CFC but live and learn I suppose.
Regarding your ice bath comment. I actually do that (which is what allows me to go from boiling to ~90-100 degrees pretty quickly) I just didnt want to go too far off topic haha.
I also suggest fermentation temp control. There are other methods like the ice bath method, or topping off with preboiled/frozen ice (get some cheap tupperware or similar, freeze, pop into hot wort carefully).
Temp control is harder to cheat on. For a more hands on approach the swamp cooler, with or without frozen water bottles, is a cheap solution but does require you to keep an eye on it. Do look around CL or talk with any other people you know who brew. Many have old chillers and equipment they are happy to part with cheaply or for beer.
Temp control is harder to cheat on. For a more hands on approach the swamp cooler, with or without frozen water bottles, is a cheap solution but does require you to keep an eye on it. Do look around CL or talk with any other people you know who brew. Many have old chillers and equipment they are happy to part with cheaply or for beer.
PlexVector
Mellow Goose Brewing
If you can only pick one, then fermentation temp is the choice if you want better beer. The trade off is a little longer brew day tending the IC or the constant tending of the swamp cooler for two weeks. Presently I have only one freezer I use for both the fermentor and keezer. Just means I don't have a pipe line since I can't start a new batch until I kick the last one. I could bottle of course, but that's a PITA, although I will bottle the last half of the keg sometimes.
horaceunit
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Best thing I ever did was the ferm chamber from a Holiday 5.2 cu. in. chest freezer. BTW for the OP if you get one of these smaller chest freezer I recently found out that four 3 gallon Better Bottles will fit in the main part of the freezer that will really open up how much you can brew. Otherwise one 5 gallon bucket is all I can fit in mine at one time.
ArthurDigbySellers
Well-Known Member
I'm kind of in the same boat as I lost my IC due to leaving water in it over the winter (water expansion busted the coil in 20+ places) and my chest freezer/fermentation chamber just died on me. I was initially going to buy a new IC but a new chest freezer, at 3x the cost, is still the smarter option since I can ferment any time of the year with it. I was also using the chest freezer to cool and serve my kegged beer from as well so losing it really hurt.
vincentAlpha
Well-Known Member
+1 on the ferm chamber, wish I had one but went with the chiller; that being said I've done no chill and been happy with the results. The ability to maintain a ferm temp though is a whole other ball game than cooling when it comes to control in brewing.
hifidelity
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Best investment I've made toward better beer has been my chest freezer fermentation chamber.
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
"Which should I get?" The theoretical answer is as others have stated, both. And although I personally don't have both (although I already have a WC and I'm working on putting together a ferm chamber as we speak), I would have to agree that if it was months or years in between acquiring both, the ferm chamber would be better choice.
+eleventy billion for the chest freezer. Fermentation temp control is #1 to vastly improve your beer. You could even ditch the wort chiller altogether and let it chill overnight and youd still be golden with a chest freezer. I have bought so much equipment over the past 18months of my brewing. Nearly all of it (save the $1800 brew boss system I just ordered) is all "cold side" stuff. I still have my first 9gal kettle and immersion chiller I use for BIAB
Does anyone chill their wort in a ferm chamber? Not exactly a no-chill, but more actively try to cool the wort using a prechilled (0F) freezer and attaching the temp probe to the warm kettle/fermenter. Is that just asking to burn out the freezer?
kev211
Well-Known Member
I Kinda do it (see earlier posts). I chill my wort down to sub 100 degrees, put it in a carboy and chill in the chest from there. I just dont want to put boiling wort in my chest freezer and see what happens haha
Not in all cases, especially not when using a second hand fridge/freezer for your chamber.
I have sort of tried this, just to bring it down the last 7-8°c. Took hours, I couldn't believe it.
Back to OP - Fermentation control made a bigger improvement to my beers than quick chilling did.
Brew_G
Well-Known Member
I'm sure the guy who says he has money for either a chiller or old freezer can relate when he reads this.
Brew_G
Well-Known Member
Dp
Brew_G
Well-Known Member
Tp
PlexVector
Mellow Goose Brewing
This is actually a trick question!
IC: you could do 25' 3/8 for under $40; DIY maybe a little less.
Fermentation cooler (chamber):
5 to 7 cubic chest freezer off craigs list maybe $50, or at least under $100.
plus you need a temp controller, so STC1000 with sensor under $20 on amazon.
Lets say you get lucky on craigs list, so Fermentation chamber system is about $100.
if you do a dorm frig from craigs list and buy material from Home Depot for DIY...maybe can do less, but you still need a controller, so I think the chest is best value and no DIY, so do the chest.
One choice is twice the price of the other. It's not an apples to apples choice. First you have to have a budget, so which one fits the budget is the one you have to go with first. If your budget is around $150, you can do both!
This is actually a trick question!
IC: you could do 25' 3/8 for under $40; DIY maybe a little less.
Fermentation cooler (chamber):
5 to 7 cubic chest freezer off craigs list maybe $50, or at least under $100.
plus you need a temp controller, so STC1000 with sensor under $20 on amazon.
Lets say you get lucky on craigs list, so Fermentation chamber system is about $100.
if you do a dorm frig from craigs list and buy material from Home Depot for DIY...maybe can do less, but you still need a controller, so I think the chest is best value and no DIY, so do the chest.
One choice is twice the price of the other. It's not an apples to apples choice. First you have to have a budget, so which one fits the budget is the one you have to go with first. If your budget is around $150, you can do both!
You're right, I guess I should add that I'm lazy and want things done correctly. I was thinking about building the wort chiller but if it cost $40 I'd rather just path the extra $30 and get one that I know will work without the hacking. I might even skip it until I can afford to get a counter flow which seems like a better long term solution.
Same goes for the freezer, I could get one of craiglist but I'd have to worry about it breaking or even just the logistics of finding and picking it up. I'ad rather pay more to get a new one that I can pick up easily.
So, if I wanted to I guess I could get both, the question I guess is what is more important if I only want to get one right now and that seems to be the chest freezer.
PlexVector
Mellow Goose Brewing
It's a quandary for sure. I'm the same way in that why buy cheap now when in several months I'm going to want to upgrade, so why not just buy what you want now and not waste the money, but you don't want to afford that much money for it right now, but you don't want to DIY, because by the time you get it done you could have saved enough money to get it off the shelf, but you hate spending that much money, because you could buy something else with the money you save; however, the money saved won't be enough to get what I really want, so do I DIY, buy used, or get new; they each have their pros and cons, and the scales swing back and forth depending how I work the pros and cons out in my head, so why buy cheap now when in several months I'm going to want to upgrade, so why not just buy what you want now and not waste the money, but you don't want to afford that much money for it right now, but you don't want to DIY, because by the time you get it done you could have saved enough money to get it off the shelf, but you hate spending that much money, because you could buy something else with the money you save; however, the money saved won't be enough to get what I really want, so do I DIY, buy used, or get new; they each have their pros and cons, and the scales swing back and forth depending how I work the pros and cons out in my head, so why buy cheap now when...
MadHomebrewer
Well-Known Member
I feel you. I'm slowly getting all my gear together for 5 gallon batches and kegging. I would go fermentation chamber but you will still have the added expense of a temp controller. I just picked up a chest freezer yesterday off Craigslist for $60. Now for the $16 temp controller off Amazon.
I was considering a CFC and actually decided to stick with a IC. I upgraded to a 1/2 inch dual coil one and am very happy. I didnt want to have to worry about cleaning out the inside of the CFC.
PlexVector
Mellow Goose Brewing
CFC or PC (Plate Chiller)?
I went withimmersion because it cools plenty quickly (I do 10-12 Gallon batches) and you can see everything that is going to touch your beer. Since I dont bother filtering, using clarifiers and could not give two turds regarding if kettle trub ends up in my fermenters or not the last thing I want is stuff (a highly technical term I know) to get stuck or grow inside a Counterflow or Plate Chiller. They both seem to have the same downside of cleaning, especially since I am not using pumps in my system yet either.
PlexVector
Mellow Goose Brewing
I'm on a low gpm well, so water conservation was a must, so I got a 18" plate chiller. If I had to do it over I would have gone with a good CFC since it is easier to keep clean, or rather less worries of it not being clean. Although I do like my plate chiller, but I ended up getting a hop rocket to put rice hulls in as a prefilter (and other uses) to the PC.
