Working my own recipe..inputs, advise, hand-slapping requested

[PoorBoy]

so, SWMBO is a fan of the lambics...i don't have the space/time/patience/requisite skill or knowledge to delve into that yet...so what i'm doing is trying to develop a tart wheat recipe to get close to it.
What say you!?!

Mini-mash
2.5# Belgian pils
.5# carapils
.5# aromatic
5lbs of wheat extract

1oz saas, two zested orange peels, 1oz lemongrass @ 60m

1oz crystal, 1/8oz Coriander @ 15

WLP001 yeast


I was thinking of getting a pound of sour cherries for the secondary. I know that will up the gravity, should i repitch on that or add water? I like the WLP for some of my summer wheats, but if someone has something better? Maybe safbrew t-58?

if i can nail this down, it will make brewdays much smoother, and more frequent, as she will become exponentially more supportive of my...hobby

 

[TotemWolf]

Lambics get their sour flavor from 'wild' yeast. Many of these can be bought at your HBS. Also their are some lambic kits out there. It's not hard to do. Just an extra package of 'yeast' to put in at the right time.

 

[TotemWolf]

Lambics get their sour flavor from 'wild' yeast. Many of these can be bought at your HBS. Also their are some lambic kits out there. It's not hard to do. Just an extra package of 'yeast' to put in at the right time.


If it's just the sour she likes, you could be on to a winner there.

Good luck whatever you do. I know how much a supportive wife makes the hobby better.

 

[PoorBoy]

i was always under the impression that traditional lambics took much, much longer?

 

[TotemWolf]

It depends on how sour you want it. 4 months is the normal suggested time. 1 to 12 months is what Wyeast says.

 

[TotemWolf]

Also the 'lambo' critters are strong. Don't cross contaminate anything. For any careful brewer it's not a problem.

 

[asterix404]

Heh! I am making a berlinerweisse for the summer (it will be ready about 3 months or so after brewing). The firs thing to know about sours is that it will require either a special bucket dedicated to only sours or get a glass primary.

The sour comes from adding lactobacillus to the primary or secondary which is a bacteria and will get into every scratch if your bucket. This will basically spoil your beer in a very specific way.

Alternatively you can add wild yeast strains (http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/bacteria.html) otherwise referred to brett b. and brett l. to the primary or secondary, brew with them with other yeast or just brew with them alone for a strong flavor. I would look for recipes online if you want to go down this route. I am exploring it now because it is impossible to find beer like this (esp sours) because it's very risky for the big guys to do it due to the bacteria. Enjoy and happy brewing!

 

[PoorBoy]

it's the time of "doing it right" that i'm trying to avoid. i've been reading about the lambics, and until i finally retire from this dog and pony show, i'm not sure i'll be able to commit to time to it. Hell, i'm not even going to be stationed here for another 6 months...so, what i'm trying to ask, i guess, is will this fake it well enough (twolf seems to think it'll be sour enough), and if my yeast will work. Also, should i repitch when i rack onto the cherries, or add water to bring the FG down? i know it's going to take a brew or two to really hit it, i'm just trying to minimize them.

 

[frankstoneline]

you could try and develop a bit of a sour taste by using some of the runnings from a mash (or a mini mash) and letting them ferment without boiling. the lacto in the grain will develop a sour type beer and then you could pastuerize and blend to taste when your normal recipe was complete.

 

[wonderbread23]

A few things:

I'd avoid a lambic style beer if you're new to this. To do it properly, you're going to want a year or so. I've done a number of sour beers and the different microbes tend to do their things at different stages. Will it be sour/acidic at 4 months ... maybe. But it also might taste like baby diapers. You really need to let all the critters do their thing on their own timeline.

That being said, I'd go in the current direction you're heading. I'd certainly move the orange peel and lemongrass additions to 5 minutes or less. Long boils will drive off their aromatics. If you want to add some more tartness, you could easily incorporate some acidulated malt (sauer malt) ... maybe 12 oz. or so. Another option would be to dose the final beer after you're done fermenting with some food grade lactic acid available at most homebrew shops. Personally, I'd avoid the cherries in this recipe as it would likely clash with everything else you have going on.

 

[asterix404]

To answer the original question (I think) your beer will taste like sour cherries.

<quote>1oz saas, two zested orange peels, 1oz lemongrass @ 60m

1oz crystal, 1/8oz Coriander @ 15</quote>

The saaz will add a nice spice, the zest will add a nice oringe flavor, the lemoongrass will make it taste a bit like lemmongrass. I would add all spice at knockout or like, 1min from the end of the boil.

The adding sour cherry to the primary will give you a sour cherry flavor (I would bring up your puree to 175 to kill anything on it)

What you are basically making is a wit. It won't be a sour wit, but it looks like a good recipe. The confusing part for us is that when you say "sour" it is a very specific style of beer. This beer will be nothing like a traditional sour, it will taste like a wit with sour cherries added (which sounds delicious). A berliner weisse is a sour beer (it has lacto added to it) and it is ready in 2-3 months. It's the traditional entry level sour beer since the others do take a long time to fully develop.

 

[PoorBoy]

thanks all. i'm still relatively new to this, i've only got about 10 brews, all kits, under my belt. i know that sour-style beers are their own thing, and eventually i'll be brewing them, but now, in the interest of time/space, i'd just like to cheat it a bit, get some sour/tartness the lazy man's way. Three months from now, i'm anticipating most of my worldly possessions being in transit to HI, if i'm lucky...

should i do anything special for the sour cherry? i'm concerned that all that sugar might be too much for a simple ale or wheat beer yeast...

 

[erikpete18]

If you're trying to get things done in a short amount of time, I'd definitely look into wonderbread's ideas on acid malt or lactic acid. It won't be as complex as a lambic, but not all of us have several years to wait . Both the acid malt and lactic acid will give you a little bit of sourness to the beer without having to worry about any new sour bugs.

Both methods have pros and cons, the acid malt will help to keep your mash pH down, but you've got to figure out how much to add. The lactic acid you can add after fermentation is done, so if you draw a sample and carefully measure how much lactic acid you add, you can figure out how much you'd like to add to the whole batch to suit your tastes.

As far as your yeast, it should be able to handle anything the cherries can throw at it. You may want to make sure you transfer some trub from your primary when you rack onto them if you want to make sure you ferment them out completely.

 

[zachary80]

what about adding malic acid?

 

[AdamWiz]

acidulated malt is great for adding just a hint of tartness to a beer's flavor. Just take whatever recipe you are using and make about 7-10% of the total malt acidulated (also called acid malt or sauermalt). It will give you a little sour edge without the long wait for wild yeasts to do their thing.

 

[asterix404]

Yea, I +1 adding acid. This is the "cheater" method but it works out just the same and it tastes just the same, and using that method a beer won a huge brewing competition.

 

[PoorBoy]

you all ****in' rock. doing a little further reading based on the directions you've all give me, i think that lactic acid is going to be my method. that way, she can taste it herself and determine where she wants it as i add wee-bits.

all i need now is funding authority

 

[PoorBoy]

5 lbs Wheat (liquid) Extract (w/1 lb corn sugar)
5 lbs Belgian Pils
1 lb Saur Malt
1oz Saaz @ 60m
1 Zested Orange @ 60m
1oz Lemongrass @ 15m
1oz Crystal @ 15m
1/8oz Cracked Coriander @ 5m
1 Zested Orange @ 5m


Safale T-33

I fat fingered the hell out of my order, so I have an extra lb of pils, and a lb of corn sugar in my wheat lme. My attention to detail continues to serve me well....will this prove problematic? I was just going to increase my water some to compensate...but I'm still a little concerned


BYO calculator has me at:
og 1058
fg 1014

sound about right? I know it's going to be a bit heavier, with a higher alcohol content...but that's not necessarily a bad thing. And I went ahead and got the lactic acid to add if I needed to at bottling.

 

[asterix404]

Do not boil the orange, the zest, the pulp or the pith, in fact... just heat up the orange zest and pulp to 175 and let cool, add to the bucket when you pour in the wort and stir. Put the lemmongrass in for about 5m with your coriander and I would figure out a way to strain it from the beer.

Boiling any fruit will give you jelly. Also, only use the pulp and zest, never the whole orange, the pith is incredibly bitter and will give you a very bitter (not sour) beer.

When I make my orange heff I do this:

1) zest the oranges
2) peel off the pith and discard
3) blend the zest and pulp with about 1/2-1c water to make a puree
4) heat this mixture up to 175
5) once at 175, turn off the head, put a lid on until wort is done
6) mix the wort and the puree

For this particular recipe I might leave out the lemon grass, but that is just my personal preference. Also, make sure to save the 3/4c from the 1# of corn sugar for bottling. You might just want to save that off, it doesn't really do anything except increase the alcohol and thin the body.

 

[PoorBoy]

Do not boil the orange, the zest, the pulp or the pith, in fact... just heat up the orange zest and pulp to 175 and let cool, add to the bucket when you pour in the wort and stir. Put the lemmongrass in for about 5m with your coriander and I would figure out a way to strain it from the beer.

Boiling any fruit will give you jelly. Also, only use the pulp and zest, never the whole orange, the pith is incredibly bitter and will give you a very bitter (not sour) beer.

When I make my orange heff I do this:

1) zest the oranges
2) peel off the pith and discard
3) blend the zest and pulp with about 1/2-1c water to make a puree
4) heat this mixture up to 175
5) once at 175, turn off the head, put a lid on until wort is done
6) mix the wort and the puree

For this particular recipe I might leave out the lemon grass, but that is just my personal preference. Also, make sure to save the 3/4c from the 1# of corn sugar for bottling. You might just want to save that off, it doesn't really do anything except increase the alcohol and thin the body.

I don't boil the whole orange, just the zest (and in a hop ball). I'm not even really interested in an orange flavor, just trying to get some tart from the zest (as well as the lemongrass). And unfortunately, the corn sugar will be mixed in with my LME. I really screwed myself there, but I'm hoping the extra lb of pils I also screwed myself with will help to even it out?