WLP833 Yeast question

[shrews824]

Hey everyone,

Hope all is well.

I have a few questions if you don't mind?

Ok, so I brewed up an APA on Sunday. The brew day went smoothly, hit all my targets, etc. Cooled down the wort, placed it in my chamber and pitched WLP833 a little on the warm side (~60F) because it was getting late and I was tired and ready to go to bed. Yeah, I probably could have waited until the morning to pitch the yeast or whatever, but I already had the yeast at room temp. and just wanted to. Maybe I could have put it back in the fridge, not sure if that would have hurt the yeast. I was wanting to ferment at around 50/52F. Fast forward to this morning (Tuesday) and I still have no action whatsoever. Absolutely no sign of anything happening. I did notice the yeast was about one month past date, but I wouldn't have thought it would have been that far gone.

So, my questions are: Do I let it ride for another day or so and see what happens? Do I add a package of US-05 and just bump it up and ferment at ~68F? If I do that, will I have any off flavors from the residual WLP833? I realize the US-05 is pretty neutral, but will any off flavors be generated by mixing the two? No, it won't be in the style I was shooting for, however at least I'll still have a brew I can drink and salvage without having to dump it.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks so much everyone.

Scott

 

[Mr. Vern]

Are you sure that yeast is not working? people use it up to 65F with excellent results so it is not the temperature. How much did you pitch and what is your starting gravity? 833 is estery in the 65F range, you'll get some of that if the yeast is alive. I've never brewed with it but I would not be surprised if it is a slow mover.

 

[shrews824]

Are you sure that yeast is not working? people use it up to 65F with excellent results so it is not the temperature. How much did you pitch and what is your starting gravity? 833 is estery in the 65F range, you'll get some of that if the yeast is alive. I've never brewed with it but I would not be surprised if it is a slow mover.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's not doing anything. No bubbles coming through nor is there any change to the beer when looking at it. It still looks the same. I will say though, I'm using a "big mouth bubbler" fermenter and when I pushed down on the top of the fermenter this morning it did release some pressure bubbles (through a blow off tube) into my container of Sanitizer. So, it's like it built up some pressure, but I'm not sure if that was from the initial aeration or what. The OG was 1.055 and I just pitched one liquid package for a 5 gallon batch.

 

[Mr. Vern]

Liquid yeast really does benefit from a starter even if you do a mason jar on the counter. I would expect to see some visual signs by now but you may be in an extended growth phase with a low starting cell count. Finishing Sunday night, you will probably see some activity later today. If not I would pitch more yeast.

I tend to overpitch but I always use a starter to make sure that liquid yeast is viable. You never know how that packet was treated before you bought it.

 

[shrews824]

Liquid yeast really does benefit from a starter even if you do a mason jar on the counter. I would expect to see some visual signs by now but you may be in an extended growth phase with a low starting cell count. Finishing Sunday night, you will probably see some activity later today. If not I would pitch more yeast.

I tend to overpitch but I always use a starter to make sure that liquid yeast is viable. You never know how that packet was treated before you bought it.

Very true. Yeah, I'll give it until this evening. If still nothing I'll pitch that US-05. So, do you think there will be any off putting flavors by combining the two?

 

[hottpeper13]

That's my go to lager yeast, I've been overbuilding a pouch from 2017 so I use it a lot. You should always make a starter with liquid yeast. A lager needs twice the amount of an ale. Good thing you pitched it warm, it should work you just might have some weird flavors. I start my fermentations in the Big Mouth (have 4) with an "S" lok to see the pressure build before the 1/8" cap forms.

My first pitch of a starter gose like this, make a 1250 ml starter from saved yeast, when done 2-3 days I put 250 ml in an erlenmyer flask to save, then the rest in 33* lagerator to settle, decant on brew day, take a mason jar out of the BK after 10 min boil and put in freezer. When the wort in freezer is at pitching temps I add it to the 2 L flask for a vitality starter, I ;pitch at high krausen and always have positive pressure in less then 4 hrs and a foam cap in 8 hrs. The first pitch is in 10.44 or less wort, and i repitch 1/2 of the cake in the next beer.

So you should not pitch more yeast until the 48 hr mark. Always take a brew all the way, cause you don't know what it will be until the 6-8 week mark.

 

[Mr. Vern]

So, do you think there will be any off putting flavors by combining the two?

You can mix yeast without worry, it can limit temp range. I would peg the fermenting chamber at 65F just in case that 833 is still active, lager yeast can throw esters for a long time.

 

[shrews824]

That's my go to lager yeast, I've been overbuilding a pouch from 2017 so I use it a lot. You should always make a starter with liquid yeast. A lager needs twice the amount of an ale. Good thing you pitched it warm, it should work you just might have some weird flavors. I start my fermentations in the Big Mouth (have 4) with an "S" lok to see the pressure build before the 1/8" cap forms.

My first pitch of a starter gose like this, make a 1250 ml starter from saved yeast, when done 2-3 days I put 250 ml in an erlenmyer flask to save, then the rest in 33* lagerator to settle, decant on brew day, take a mason jar out of the BK after 10 min boil and put in freezer. When the wort in freezer is at pitching temps I add it to the 2 L flask for a vitality starter, I ;pitch at high krausen and always have positive pressure in less then 4 hrs and a foam cap in 8 hrs. The first pitch is in 10.44 or less wort, and i repitch 1/2 of the cake in the next beer.

So you should not pitch more yeast until the 48 hr mark. Always take a brew all the way, cause you don't know what it will be until the 6-8 week mark.

You can mix yeast without worry, it can limit temp range. I would peg the fermenting chamber at 65F just in case that 833 is still active, lager yeast can throw esters for a long time.

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll wait until the 48 hour mark before I do anything. If nothing is happening I'll pitch that US-05. Next time however I'll make a starter for the liquid yeast and make sure I have a healthy base before pitching. I hate this so much because I was looking forward to this particular recipe. Guess that means I'll just have to brew it again, huh?

 

[hottpeper13]

Swap out the blow off for an "S" lok of 3 piece so you can see the pressure build. I will ease your mind.

 

[shrews824]

Swap out the blow off for an "S" lok of 3 piece so you can see the pressure build. I will ease your mind.

Good idea!!! I can do that.

 

[dmtaylor]

My last batch with WLP833 started out sluggish. It eventually started up close to the 48th hour and turned out fantastic. I fermented mine at around 65 F and no sign of bad fruity esters or anything like that. You might want to warm yours up a little bit, especially since you skipped the starter.

 

[shrews824]

My last batch with WLP833 started out sluggish. It eventually started up close to the 48th hour and turned out fantastic. I fermented mine at around 65 F and no sign of bad fruity esters or anything like that. You might want to warm yours up a little bit, especially since you skipped the starter.

@dmtaylor @hottpeper13 @Mr. Vern
Well, last night I did what you said. I was getting ready to pitch my US-05 when I saw this reply. I bumped up the temp. to 64F. I woke up this morning and saw this!!!

 

[LokiM4]

@dmtaylor @hottpeper13 @Mr. Vern
Well, last night I did what you said. I was getting ready to pitch my US-05 when I saw this reply. I bumped up the temp. to 64F. I woke up this morning and saw this!!!

View attachment 853252

How did it turn out?

 

[shrews824]

How did it turn out?

It turned out pretty well actually. I was totally surprised. It finished within about a week. I cold crashed and bottled and after about 2 weeks in the bottle it had settled nicely. I finished off every bottle with ease!!!! I really appreciate everyone's advice and suggestions.

 

[hottpeper13]

That's awesome and pretty fast for a lager. Was the last bottle better then the first?

 

[LokiM4]

It turned out pretty well actually. I was totally surprised. It finished within about a week. I cold crashed and bottled and after about 2 weeks in the bottle it had settled nicely. I finished off every bottle with ease!!!! I really appreciate everyone's advice and suggestions.

Awesome, it’s great when things turn out so well!

 

[shrews824]

That's awesome and pretty fast for a lager. Was the last bottle better then the first?

It did finish pretty fast. Once it got going it chugged along like a champ. The later bottles were definitely better than the first. The first bottle or two was just so-so for sure, but she was prime after a couple of weeks. I was trying to drink them as fresh as I could since it was an APA, but it did help in letting them get a little bit of crispness. It actually made the hops pop a little more.

Awesome, it’s great when things turn out so well!

Absolutely. I was sweating bullets there for a few days. I do believe it's a recipe I'll try again sometime next year.

 

[Bassman2003]

If the beer was fermented at 65F and was an APA, can we still call it a "lager"? Seems like an ale all the way that happened to use lager yeast. Just curious why WLP833 was used instead of something like US05 for an APA?

 

[shrews824]

https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-la-nouvelle-american-pale-ale/

This the recipe I copied (or tried to). No particular reason, it just sounded interesting to me. It called for 34/70 but my homebrew shop didn't have any so they recommended WLP833 as a substitute. I just followed the fermentation temp. suggestions on the package.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks. I agree, it is a modern take and interesting. Sort of an IPAL!

 

[LokiM4]

Thanks. I agree, it is a modern take and interesting. Sort of an IPAL!

ImHO you fermented with a lager yeast, it’s a lager-but I know that’s a subjective matter here.

 

[Bassman2003]

It's a brave new world