wlp693 l. plantarum starter

[millsbrew]

Looking to do a kettle sour with this for a gose. Anyone have suggestions on how to build a starter for it? Aerobic, temp, etc?

Thanks.

 

[microbusbrewery]

Buy a GoodBelly SuperShot...no starter needed IME. 50 billion cells per container for $1.50-$2.00.

 

[millsbrew]

Not really helpful since I already have the vial. What temp did you kettle sour at with l. plantarum? I've read as low at 90f and as high as 110f. I was just going to split the difference at 100f.

 

[microbusbrewery]

I take it up to 170F after the mash to pasteurize then chill to 100F and pitch the Lactobacillus. Then I just put it in the warmest room in the house and leave it at room temp until the pH gets down around 3.3 to 3.4. I know people get much faster results if they can maintain temps around 100F, but it'll sour at room temp too...usually takes about four days for me. I suspect my water profile may have something to do with it taking that long (buffering capacity). Re aerobic vs. anaerobic, this strain tends to ferment homo (primarily produces lactic acid) in anaerobic conditions. However, it has a tendency to be heterofermentative in aerobic conditions, resulting in lactic acid, ethanol, and sometimes acetic acid production. So my recommendation would be to avoid oxygen.

 

[millsbrew]

Thanks. Was looking more so the starter. I have my game plan for the brew day already. Appreciate the help.

 

[millsbrew]

After 66 hours my pH was only at 3.68. I just ran out and got a GoodBelly PlusShot (they didn't have the super shot). I tossed in 2 since I don't need to have them laying around. I reapplied my CO2 and sealed the BK back up. Do you add yeast nutrients to your kettle sours? I'm wondering why my sour didn't hit a pH under 3.5 considering I held it at 90F per White Labs.

 

[Grod1]

hey man i dont remember where i found these notes on Lacto cultures but if i find the link ill share it. -sugar composition of 2 to 3% w/v glucose, which has been shown to be optimal in stimulating Lactobacillus growth and metabolism.
-Enough buffering capacity to prevent the Lactobacillus from slowing their own growth via an over-acidification of their environment.
To create a starter optimized to grow Lactobacillus, combine the following ingredients per Liter of wort and boil for 15 minutes:

90 grams Dry Malt Extract
20 grams Dextrose (Glucose) (sold to brewers as corn sugar)
20 grams Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3 / chalk)
1 gram Yeast Nutrient or DAP (diammonium phosphate)Cool this starter solution down to the temperature preferred by the strain of Lactobacillus that you are culturing and maintain this temperature as best as possible for 24 to 36 hours
-it is best to time your starter’s creation so that it can be pitched into the wort you intend to sour between 24 to 48 hours after making the starter.
-decant the starter wort off of any chalk sediment at the bottom of the flask. we DO NOT want to pour this into the beer.
One practical way to ensure that your starter culture is multiplying as expected is to monitor for turbidity changes. starters will become increasingly cloudy as the cell density rises.
-Even the more “hop tolerant” strains such at L. brevis tend to lose their ability to significantly acidify beers with an IBU level of 5 or greater.
-Any beer with an original gravity higher than 1.040 SG (10 Plato) will be soured more slowly or incompletely by Lactobacillus.
or 120$ lab grade "broth"

 

[millsbrew]

Thanks. Appreciate it. Any suggestions on a kettle sour stale? Still at pH of 3.49 after 4 full days.

 

[plazola86]

What was the OG?

-Any beer with an original gravity higher than 1.040 SG (10 Plato) will be soured more slowly or incompletely by Lactobacillus

 

[Morrey]

Looking to do a kettle sour with this for a gose. Anyone have suggestions on how to build a starter for it? Aerobic, temp, etc?

Thanks.

L Plantarum sours nicely at room temps or anywhere around 80F. I let mine rise up to 90F at times but not necessary. One liter wort (with culture) in a flask STOPPERED or with airlock so no O2 gets in. You'll see a layer that appears cloudy near the bottom of your flask when culture is building. The lacto will have a sweet and faintly sour smell similar to an Arnold Palmer Iced Tea-Lemonade beverage.

 

[Morrey]

After 66 hours my pH was only at 3.68. I just ran out and got a GoodBelly PlusShot (they didn't have the super shot). I tossed in 2 since I don't need to have them laying around. I reapplied my CO2 and sealed the BK back up. Do you add yeast nutrients to your kettle sours? I'm wondering why my sour didn't hit a pH under 3.5 considering I held it at 90F per White Labs.

If you are only at 3.68 after 66 hours, I figure something may be awry. Did you check your SG? My guess is you are fermenting out.

 

[millsbrew]

OG was 1.035. Currently 1.034. It smells like apple juice when I open it up. Edit: Temp has been held between 82f and 93f since pitching at 100f.

 

[millsbrew]

Could using RO water with just CaCl to adjust pH cause the issue?

 

[plazola86]

Have you actually tasted it? Are you testing with a PH meter or strips? Testing is good but nothing beats tasting for sourness level.

 

[millsbrew]

Tastes like sugar water. Some sweetness of malt. I use a new Milwaukee pH meter, tested calibration too and it was only off 0.03.

 

[microbusbrewery]

So you went from 3.68 in 2.75 days then to 3.49 after four days, correct? And you're not seeing any additional change in pH since reaching 3.49, correct? That's pretty consistent with my experience with that strain using GoodBelly SuperShots pitched directly from the container at 100F then fermented at room temp (~72F) for the rest of the souring period. Mine was 3.63 on day 2, 3.52 on day 3, and it finished at 3.49 on day 6 when I boiled. I've brewed much more sour beers with lower pH by souring post-boil, but at 3.49 there's no mistaking it's a sour beer. It will seem much more sour after the rest of the sugar has fermented out.