WLP051 is sooooo... sloooow... (and fruity!)

[npbrew]

So I decided to make an AG tied-and-true Bells 2 hearted clone from the forums. I subbed crystal 20 for honey malt, but otherwise pretty similar.

For the yeast, I ended up going with While Labs 051, California V. I thought it would be the same as the other clean ale yeasts after talking with the guy at the LHBS. I was so wrong...

So, I hit temps at 152 mash, mashed out at 168, and SG was undershot at 0.061 - should have been 0.068. Ah well.
Made a 1L 24-hour starter and let it go over 70 degrees. That gave me the first sign of trouble - was just fizzing by pitching time, no big krausen like normal. I once had a literally frozen block of yeast that made a more robust starter.

I pitched it anyway and it actually got off to a pretty good start after 8 hours at 66 F (in a temp-controlled fermentation chamber). Along the way, it smelled like putrid fruit loops and swamp gas. Not pleasant, especially since it resided in SWMBO's home office

Day 4: checked the gravity, it was at .035. Tasted it, and was like fruity cough syrup. so I raised the temp to 68 and gave it a good swirl.

Day 7: got down to .026. There were fizzy bubbles covering the surface, but no solid krausen. Bumped to 70 F, Swirled again, still fruit loops syrup.

Day 11: finally got to .02. Still cloyingly sweet, maybe the honey malt? never used it before

I then realized that the FG is only going to be .017 at best because of this under-attenuating slow-as-hell yeast, so I am kinda worried I am going to get a hoppy syrupy mess.

So, my question is, should I pitch some trusty ol' US05 to finish the job properly, or should I let this fruit bomb yeast limp along?

 

[npbrew]

So, it is now two weeks after the brew. It went grindingly slow from 0.061 to 0.019, and I am assuming it is stopping there. Attenuation is at 67%. It is a much sweeter than I prefer, but not undrinkable.

In theory (and according to Beersmith) there should be more fermentable sugars in there. Would pitching a pack of US05 to shave off a few points be an exercise in futility?

 

[sptaylor70]

I don't think that pitching some US-05 would hurt it.

Most people seem to get better results from WLP051. How old was the vial when you made the starter?

 

[npbrew]

Checked the vial again, the best before date was 2 months away when I pitched it, so it should have been good.

After searching around some more though, it might just be a finicky yeast. Maybe the starter might have needed warmer temps and a longer time to get going.

I'll go ahead and pitch the US-05 and see what happens. I suppose more yeast can't hurt, right?

 

[EarlyAmateurZymurgist]

So, it is now two weeks after the brew. It went grindingly slow from 0.061 to 0.019, and I am assuming it is stopping there. Attenuation is at 67%. It is a much sweeter than I prefer, but not undrinkable.

0.042 / 0.061 = ~69% AA

WLP051 behaves exactly like BRY 97 (WLP051 is more than likely the same stain as BRY 97). It is not uncommon to achieve an apparent attenuation in the 69% to 70% range with this strain on the first pitch. You will obtain better attenuation if you crop and repitch (much better attentuation if you mash at 148 and repitch). I prefer the flavor of this strain over that of BRY 96/1056/WLP001/US-05. It produces less generic tasting brews.

 

[npbrew]

0.042 / 0.061 = ~69% AA

WLP051 behaves exactly like BRY 97 (WLP051 is more than likely the same stain as BRY 97). It is not uncommon to achieve an apparent attenuation in the 69% to 70% range with this strain on the first pitch. You will obtain better attenuation if you crop and repitch (much better attentuation if you mash at 148 and repitch). I prefer the flavor of this strain over that of BRY 96/1056/WLP001/US-05. It produces less generic tasting brews.

Thanks for the info! I actually wussed out on pitching US05, so it is still sitting in the primary. To crop and repitch, would I transfer to a secondary, make another starter with the yeast slurry and pitch that? Pardon my ignorance, but haven't tried harvesting yeast before.

 

[guinness10]

I know this is a few months old now, but I just pitched WLP051 into a citra pale ale extract kit from More Beer on Saturday night. This is only my 4th batch and the first in a chest freezer converted to a fermentation chamber. At any rate, the stench when I opened the lid is definitely not what I'm used to smelling in a fermenting beer. I know some yeasts can generate some foul scents, I'm just curious to know how things worked out in your case...


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[Jay-Brew]

I'm planning on doing the same recipe as the OP this coming weekend or the one after. I've read before about this yeast possibly being temperamental. Keep us posted on how your fermentation goes.

 

[MaddBaggins]

I like this yeast in my pales. I usually go with 001 in my IPA's.

White Labs states it's more fruity with less attenuation than 001

 

[guinness10]

Do you find it generates what I could only term as "off" scents during fermentation? I don't know that I'm smelling sulfur, but it seems somewhat familiar in some way...

Is there an optimal temperature you've found the yeast performs best at? I chilled the wort to just under 70° and the fermentation chamber was set to 65° (figuring the yeast would drive the temp up to 70ish).


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[MaddBaggins]

I don't recall ever smelling sulfur, but I do smell fruit. I keep my ferm closet at 62f so the actual beer will be a little warmer.
It's a good yeast and I've never had an off beer with it. I do use 001 more often however.

Sent from my magic box, using only my thumbs.

 

[guinness10]

Well I had my wife take a whiff of the inside of the fermentation chamber. She didn't smell sulfur, so I'm assuming that whatever it is I'm smelling is normal for the yeast. To me, the scent has a sharpness to it and it doesn't smell "yeasty" at all, as was more common with my previous batches. Either way, I'll let this one ferment out and see what I've got in a couple weeks. If the odor changes during that time, I'll report back in.


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[npbrew]

I saw that this thread picked back up, and just cracked open a bottle of the beer that resulted from this quirky fermentation, so I thought I might follow up.

I let the fermenter sit for another week or so, and was surprised that it got down to around 1.016 if I remember correctly. Still tasted a bit fruity and funky during bottling, maybe with some diacetyl as well.

After bottle conditioning, most everything seemed to clear up and the funky fruit faded. Still it turned out fairly full bodied and slightly sweeter than I normally prefer, with a hint of fruity esters that peek through the hops. Not a bad beer by any means, but I preferred the Northern Brewer Dead Ringer clone I made a while back.

But man, that fermentation stank like something awful. I must have stressed the yeast along the way or bungled something else.

 

[guinness10]

So I'm about a week into fermentation. The sharp "off" odor seems to be gone and has been replaced with something more pleasantly beery.

I did do a lot more research into this particular yeast as well as other possible sources of the sharp odor I was getting. I am starting to think that I was getting a high concentration of CO2 built up inside the ferm-chamber. Although it is odorless at low levels, at higher concentrations, it can take on a sharp, acidic scent. That description seems to track with what I was smelling, so if after fermentation and conditioning, nothing seems wrong with the ale, I'll assume it was a high level of CO2 inside there.


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[Jay-Brew]

So I'm about a week into fermentation. The sharp "off" odor seems to be gone and has been replaced with something more pleasantly beery.

I did do a lot more research into this particular yeast as well as other possible sources of the sharp odor I was getting. I am starting to think that I was getting a high concentration of CO2 built up inside the ferm-chamber. Although it is odorless at low levels, at higher concentrations, it can take on a sharp, acidic scent. That description seems to track with what I was smelling, so if after fermentation and conditioning, nothing seems wrong with the ale, I'll assume it was a high level of CO2 inside there.


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Very well could have been CO2 build up in the chamber. It's pretty potent when it gets going.