WLP 830 German Lager stuck at 1.204

[DurtyChemist]

OG 1.063 measured 11/8/15. Fermentation controlled in a mini fridge with Fermwrap heater and the probe attached to the outside of the bucket covered in paper towels (don't talk to me about middle of fermentation temps) for a week when it stopped activity. Gravity 11/13 was 1.032 so I swirled the carboy and let it go. I did a diacetyl rest 11/25 at 63F until 11/28 then went back down to 53F. The gravity is now at 1.024 which is just a little above 60% attenuation. I'm not sure what to do at this point since I don't want to oxygenate the beer swirling it again but I'm not sure if adding Fermaid K will help. I'm aiming for about 1.016 for this beer. I cant recall what the mash temps were but I believe there were lower 150s. Any advice would be helpful as to either race a 5% beer or help it somehow get to 6%.

 

[rmetcalf]

Did you use a starter? Could be too low of a pitching rate. I would warm it up the upeer limit for the yeast I believe around 55. I would try to boil 3 oz of dextrose with yeast nutrients to try to get it going again. Thats worked for me when I have a stuck fermentation

 

[DurtyChemist]

2L starter and the mash was 160f for an hour. Hit my gravity and brew house efficiency of 73% like always. I set the heat back to 63 to see if anything changes. This was fresh yeast that I made a starter for just after purchasing.

 

[Bellybuster]

160 is a super high mash temp and will result in allot of unfermentables, I would say you may be done

 

[KatoBaggins]

Yeah, 160°F is pretty high. I'd bet your done. Maybe some Beano could help kick in on down. I have no first hand experience with it, and I'd be worried it would dry it out too much.

 

[rmetcalf]

Bellybuster may be correct you can try boiled yeast nutrient and some corn sugar to try to get it started again if you have unfermentables you could try adding some amylase to break some of the long chain sugars

 

[MaxStout]

Second on the amylase--it might eat up some more sugars. But with a 160F mash temp, I think you're stuck with the hand you were dealt. You could try to rouse the yeast by bumping the temp to high-60s.

 

[DurtyChemist]

I figured part was mashing higher and making it fuller bodied than mashing at 149F. I had considered the Fermaid K and I may do that tomorrow since I have it sitting around.

 

[pdxal]

+4 on mash temps, but somebody has to ask- are you checking gravity with a refractometer?

 

[hottpeper13]

bret that *****!

 

[rmetcalf]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/Fixing-a-stuck-fermentation-101.html

 

[rmetcalf]

Some more good information
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/Fixing-a-stuck-fermentation-101.html

 

[rmetcalf]

Another place for help
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/Fixing-a-stuck-fermentation-101.html

 

[DurtyChemist]

Hydrometer. I've never owned a refractometer. I hadn't seen anything specific to this strain so I was looking for that. Those links only discuss using plastic carboys wen I click them on the mobile application.

 

[rmetcalf]

Try the link in a regular browser

 

[Gavin C]

My opinion

• Don't warm it
• Don't swirl it
• Don't add more yeast to it unless you want to do a Brett or a champagne lager. (There are trillions of lager yeast already there)

The yeast have stopped because they have run out of food. It's that simple probably
(Mash too hot and an under-pitch)

Feed them more by adding amylase. This will cleave unfermentables into fermentable sugars.

• Don't add Beano that is galactinase, a very different beast.
• Don't add Fermkaid it's not needed.

This thread is what you are looking for.


All may not be lost but lagers rely on a smooth, boring, fermentation. This brew may yet be savable.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Heat was already increased. Either it's eating more or the beer is releasing CO2. I could check gravity/activity in the morning and report back.

 

[KatoBaggins]

bret that *****!

Wahahahahaha!!! Yes, that would knock that sucker down!

 

[DurtyChemist]

Wahahahahaha!!! Yes, that would knock that sucker down!

This is always the solution to stick gravities however I can't ever pick which ONE I want. Lol.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Update. Since putting it at 63F I've let it sit for at least a 24 hour period before bringing the temperature down 2-3 degrees F for the past three days and it currently is sitting at 58F. When I come home from work I'll be dropping it to 54F and it will stay there until Monday morning since I'm out of town. I will report back with a gravity reading when activity has stopped and I'm really hoping the beer finishes by next week as I want to use the yeast cake for a batch that should come in the 1.070-80 range. I just finished my new mash tun and want to give it a try. I figure what better way than to brew a big lager. It has been in the primary 3.5 weeks at this point and twice it said it was finished when it wasn't. This is good to know for future batches.

 

[osagedr]

I think you have some process things to address to help ensure future fermentations go more smoothly. Good luck!

 

[pdxal]

Update. Since putting it at 63F I've let it sit for at least a 24 hour period before bringing the temperature down 2-3 degrees F for the past three days and it currently is sitting at 58F. When I come home from work I'll be dropping it to 54F and it will stay there until Monday morning since I'm out of town. I will report back with a gravity reading when activity has stopped and I'm really hoping the beer finishes by next week as I want to use the yeast cake for a batch that should come in the 1.070-80 range. I just finished my new mash tun and want to give it a try. I figure what better way than to brew a big lager. It has been in the primary 3.5 weeks at this point and twice it said it was finished when it wasn't. This is good to know for future batches.

If it is still active while temperature is decreasing you have some things to learn about lager fermentations.
Not sure I'd use a yeast cake from a stuck fermentation again. If it didn't do well the first time I doubt it will be better the second time.

 

[DurtyChemist]

If it is still active while temperature is decreasing you have some things to learn about lager fermentations.

Such as? I'm all ears to learning more about lager fermentation now that I can hold temps in the mid to low 50s much easier and currently the outside temps are also sub 50 for when fermentation is over and lagering begins.

Not sure I'd use a yeast cake from a stuck fermentation again. If it didn't do well the first time I doubt it will be better the second time.

I wouldn't call this stuck. I would say it stops and wants conditions to be optimal. It appears that it enjoys being around 56-58F and the 63F diacetyl was a nice warm up. When I put it at 55F Friday night I woke up and it had stopped. I bumped it back to 57F and it's chugging right along. Either there is a lot of CO2 in solution, the temps in my fridge/ITC-1000 aren't correct or the yeast just likes warmer temps than the White Labs website suggests for a lager yeast. I'll probably check gravity one last time when active fermentation ends as I've always done to see where it's at. Right now I don't believe the 160F is to blame for the beer "finishing" at 1.024 and it has more to do with the temperature the yeast wants to be at. When it's done I'll be able to have a lot of people taste it for off flavors.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Well it dropped but has Diacetyl.

 

[pdxal]

What gravity did you hit?

 

[Ungoliant]

I'm gonna go ahead and third the motion for Amylaze. I did a bunch of stuff to a stuck fermentation before and nothing fixed it until I added Amylaze. That specific batch I'm referring to had too high of a mash temp as well. Finished it out at 10.3%

 

[DurtyChemist]

What gravity did you hit?

I will have to check my notes but I'm pretty sure it was around 1.014. I honestly don't know why it stopped then started but leaving it alone on vacation must have helped.

 

[DurtyChemist]

I'm gonna go ahead and third the motion for Amylaze. I did a bunch of stuff to a stuck fermentation before and nothing fixed it until I added Amylaze. That specific batch I'm referring to had too high of a mash temp as well. Finished it out at 10.3%

For 10.3% beers I would have made a much larger starter and probably used my Zurich Lager strain instead of the German Lager.

 

[Ungoliant]

Not to insult your intelligence, but let me flesh my point out a bit.

With a high mash temp like that, your yeast choice and starter size won't make much of a difference. If you mash too high, you kill the action of amylase.

It's the enzyme that helps convert the extracted maltose in to sucrose (yeast cannot convert maltose to alcohol) during the mash. So, if you kill the action of amylase, you'll get the extraction you need but not the conversion. Adding amylase to the fermentor can help finish the conversion to sucrose and give the yeast more sugars to eat, giving you a higher ABV and getting you closer to your target FG.