Wit Recipe need help

[mkyl428]

Taking a stab at designing my own recipe for a wit. This will be the first recipe i come up with on my own, I used Brewers Friend to help with some calculations but I would like the opinions of some more experienced brewers So here it is

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: WLP400
Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.00
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.012
IBU: 15.87
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 3.56
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days @ 63

Ingredients
5lbs 2-row
4lbs Flaked Wheat
1lbs White Wheat
.25lbs Flaked Oats

1oz Hallertau (60 min)
.75oz orange peel (bitter) (5min)
.75oz coriander (5min)

Yeast
WLP400 Belgian Wit Ale Yeast

Also for the Oats I could just use Quaker right?? Thank you in advance for your help

 

[Garybeer]

I used Quaker quick oats in mine, turned out great. I used closer to 10 ounces in mine but if you go that high I would throw in some rice hulls.

 

[CervezaMaLa]

I think that much flaked wheat will cause you issues with your sparge. I would up the white wheat and reduce the flaked wheat.

I use the following, though I've only made two batches and haven't experimented too much (though folks love this beer):

6# Pilsner
5# White Wheat
1# flaked oats
1# flaked wheat

 

[mkyl428]

I think that much flaked wheat will cause you issues with your sparge. I would up the white wheat and reduce the flaked wheat.

I use the following, though I've only made two batches and haven't experimented too much (though folks love this beer):

6# Pilsner
5# White Wheat
1# flaked oats
1# flaked wheat

I do BIAB so that shouldn't be a problem but what do you think if i did this instead ?
5lbs 2-row
2lbs Flaked Wheat
3lbs White Wheat
.25lbs Flaked Oats

 

[tagz]

You'll want to get your temp up higher than 63*. I got much better flavors from 400/3944 when I started at 68 and ramped to 72. Also, I'd advise against bitter orange. It's a pretty unpleasant flavor and it tends to stand out quite a bit. You can use orange zest for a fresh citrus flavor. I'd also back the coriander down to .5 oz. and make it Indian coriander if you can. That yeast gives a nice profile and you don't want to drown it out too much with the spices.

 

[Jayslay]

My recommendation is to up the orange peel a bit. When I do wits with similar coriander amounts I find all I can taste is the coriander. Also, I would prefer Pilsner malt over the 2-row because you want the lightest colour possible. Increase your boil time to drive off the DMS if you are using more then 50% Pilsner malt.

 

[stpug]

There are only two things I would adjust in your first recipe:
-half the coriander
-fermentation temp starting at 68 and letting freerise to 72ish

Of course, you didn't specify your mash temp either.

 

[mkyl428]

if i use orange zest how much should i use? What about sweet orange peel?

 

[stpug]

if i use orange zest how much should i use? What about sweet orange peel?

Sweet and bitter orange peel have different characteristics. Sweet orange peel gives you the characteristic orange scent you're familiar with while bitter orange peel gives an earthy, herbal citrus character commonly found in liquors like Gran Marnier. IMO, they are not substitutes for each other.

Coriander can be a problem of it's own. Old coriander, and some varieties, have a celery- and/or ham-like characteristics which is often times people attribute to a soup flavor. I would also recommend using Indian Coriander (shaped more like a football than soccer ball) because it's extremely citrusy.

When making a classic witbier, the coriander typically provides the citrus character while the bitter orange peel provides more of the herbal character. Counter-intuitive as it may be.

 

[mkyl428]

There are only two things I would adjust in your first recipe:
-half the coriander
-fermentation temp starting at 68 and letting freerise to 72ish

Of course, you didn't specify your mash temp either.

I was thinking of mashing @ 150F

It seems everyone thinks i should cut the coriander down a bit so maybe .5oz or less than that even?

 

[stpug]

See my post above; I think we cross-posted

As to coriander, I would stay with 0.4 oz or less. You don't want to think of soup when you're drinking your beer

 

[mkyl428]

Where do you get Indian Coriander? will they have it at the lhbs or will i have to go elsewhere? maybe grocery store?

 

[mkyl428]

See my post above; I think we cross-posted

As to coriander, I would stay with 0.4 oz or less. You don't want to think of soup when you're drinking your beer

lol.... I def don't want soup beer

 

[stpug]

Any indian market will carry indian coriander (but they just call it coriander ). I'm sure amazon would have it. Maybe some health food stores would have it. Here's a photo showing the comparison (indian coriander is on the right):

Is it absolutely necessary? No, definitely not, but it does have a big citrus aroma to it. What IS necessary is that you chew up several seeds and get the flavor of the coriander you end up using so you have an idea of what flavors you're putting in your beer.

 

[mkyl428]

so what about the orange zest or should i just stick with the bitter orange peel?

 

[mkyl428]

So based on the help i have been given so far this is what i have now

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: WLP400
Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.00
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.012
IBU: 15.87
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 3.56
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days @ 68

5lbs 2-row
2lbs Flaked Wheat
3lbs White Wheat
.25lbs Flaked Oats

mash @ 150F

1oz Hallertau (60 min)
.75oz orange peel (bitter) (5min)
.5oz coriander (5min)

Yeast
WLP400 Belgian Wit Ale Yeast

Does this look better?

 

[stpug]

so what about the orange zest or should i just stick with the bitter orange peel?

It's up to you. If you want a pronounced orange characteristic then using some sweet orange zest would help. If you want more of the classic Hoegaarden wit flavors and aromas then bitter orange peel would be better. However you do it, as long as you keep things in balance then the resulting beer will be good - they'll just have different nuance then if you had used an alternate ingredient.

I have a wit on tap that used 0.5 oz of wild sour florida orange peel, 0.25 seville bitter orange peel, and 0.1 oz of curacao bitter orange peel. Next time, I'll leave out the seville for sure, and up the curacao to 0.25.

This same wit used used 0.5 oz indian coriander and I wrote in my notes to reduce it to 0.35 oz next time. The coriander comes through more than I wanted.

I also intend on using 0.15 oz of fresh grated ginger in my next batch.

Not to say I don't like the current batch, but I'm after a different witbier profile. That's why I think your initial recipe is very reasonable with the two adjustments of less coriander and higher fermentation temp. Brew it, taste it, and adjust for your next batch.

Also, remember that if you under-do your spices (orange and coriander), you can always add more to your fermenter prior to bottling/kegging to bring up their characteristic. I've done this before and it worked very well.

 

[mkyl428]

It's up to you. If you want a pronounced orange characteristic then using some sweet orange zest would help. If you want more of the classic Hoegaarden wit flavors and aromas then bitter orange peel would be better. However you do it, as long as you keep things in balance then the resulting beer will be good - they'll just have different nuance then if you had used an alternate ingredient.

I have a wit on tap that used 0.5 oz of wild sour florida orange peel, 0.25 seville bitter orange peel, and 0.1 oz of curacao bitter orange peel. Next time, I'll leave out the seville for sure, and up the curacao to 0.25.

This same wit used used 0.5 oz indian coriander and I wrote in my notes to reduce it to 0.35 oz next time. The coriander comes through more than I wanted.

I also intend on using 0.15 oz of fresh grated ginger in my next batch.

Not to say I don't like the current batch, but I'm after a different witbier profile. That's why I think your initial recipe is very reasonable with the two adjustments of less coriander and higher fermentation temp. Brew it, taste it, and adjust for your next batch.

Also, remember that if you under-do your spices (orange and coriander), you can always add more to your fermenter prior to bottling/kegging to bring up their characteristic. I've done this before and it worked very well.

Okay Thank you! you have been very helpful i may not change my grist then from my original recipe either... One last question should i put the orange peel and the coriander in the hop bag or just toss them in loose in the boil? If loose then should i let them make it into the fermenter?

 

[stpug]

Okay Thank you! you have been very helpful i may not change my grist then from my original recipe either... One last question should i put the orange peel and the coriander in the hop bag or just toss them in loose in the boil? If loose then should i let them make it into the fermenter?

Again, it's your call, but I prefer to put them in my hop sack so most of it doesn't make it to the fermenter. They'll continue to contribute flavor/aroma for quite some time and it can become too much pretty easily, and that's why I choose to put them in a sack.

I actually add mine at flameout. Then I chill to ~170F, and then I let it sit at 170F for about 15-30 minutes (stirring occasionally). After this hopstand/steep is over, I chill to pitching temperatures (~66F for wit). Throughout the hopstand, during stirring, you can smell the aromatics coming from the spices. At any point along the way you can decide the aromatics are enough and quickly chill to pitching temperatures and/or remove your hop sack to keep additional aromatics from being imparted to your wort.

To be completely honest, I find the quantity of orange and coriander to be difficult to judge without knowing the exact process I'm/you're using. My last wit used more of each spice then this one and it's character was much more subdued BUT my steep was only 15 minutes whereas this wit was 30 minutes. So I would definitely suggest you use your nose (and taste) to get a feeling for where the spice level is at when your boil finished and even while chilling.

Sorry to be so vague but like many things in brewing, it is highly system/process dependent. I will reiterate that you can always add more spice after the fermentation but you can't take it away. The way I've added more after fermentation was to soak the spices in a small amount of vodka for a day or two, and add that to a sanitized hop sack into the fermenter. Give it just a couple days and sample to see where the level is at. It works fairly quickly. Once you reach the spice level you want, either keg/bottle or carefully remove the sack of spices.