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Wiring Gods/Geeks - I need help with switch bling.

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Gordie

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Ok, so I've got these nifty switches in my control panel - they're NKK model M2100 SPDT. The nifty thing about them is they have a LED in the tip of the switch that glows red when the switch is off and green when the switch is on. The specs are here -

http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/M2100.pdf

I've got them installed in a Brutus-style control panel and they're working fine for operating the components but I haven't been able to figure out how to get the LEDs lighting. The switches have six connections and, if anyone looks at the diagram, I'm thinking I need to send power to the #5 terminal and a return from the #4 and #6 terminals. But then I'm wondering if I need resistors, if I need to try and build an independent power circuit for the switches, etc...

Can anyone who actually knows what they're doing with this stuff help me out with this? (I'm trying to cut and paste the diagrams from the specs, but its not working... sorry...)

Thanks.

Gordie.
 
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Ok, so I've got these nifty switches in my control panel - they're NKK model M2100 SPDT. The nifty thing about them is they have a LED in the tip of the switch that glows red when the switch is off and green when the switch is on. The specs are here -

http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/M2100.pdf

I've got them installed in a Brutus-style control panel and they're working fine for operating the components but I haven't been able to figure out how to get the LEDs lighting. The switches have six connections and, if anyone looks at the diagram, I'm thinking I need to send power to the #5 terminal and a return from the #4 and #6 terminals. But then I'm wondering if I need resistors, if I need to try and build an independent power circuit for the switches, etc...

Can anyone who actually knows what they're doing with this stuff help me out with this? (I'm trying to cut and paste the diagrams from the specs, but its not working... sorry...)

Thanks.

Gordie.
What voltage/type are you switching? ie: 120VAC or 12VDC
 

ClaudiusB

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I'm thinking I need to send power to the #5 terminal and a return from the #4 and #6 terminals.
If you are using the 2113 Synchronous Bicolor version

Only pin 5 (+) and pin 6 (-) require wiring.
Switching to the up position connects 5 & 4 changing the color.
It's like moving the LED's to the right side.

You need to install a resitor based on your DC supply voltage.
If you are planning on using AC to light the LED's you will no longer have the RED or Green color, color turns orange regardless of position.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
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Gordie

Gordie

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Hi.

The model is the 2112 Synchronous bicolor version. I'm running 120vac from the wall into the control panel, which looks like it isn't going to work.

So if I'm reading this right, I'm better off wiring a separate circuit with a battery, (+) to 5 and (-) to 6. Is there an easy way to get 12vdc off the 120vac I'm currently using and just wire up a separate bus for the LEDs? (I'm quite the wiring newb...)

Gordie.
 

ClaudiusB

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Is there an easy way to get 12vdc off the 120vac I'm currently using and just wire up a separate bus for the LEDs? (I'm quite the wiring newb...)
Use a cheap wall adapter 5V or any DC out, just install the correct resistor based on the adapter voltage and LED current .


Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 

rsmith179

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Radioshack has DC wall adaptors that should work for this. They're actually adjustable anywhere from 3V-12V DC. About $20.00 shipped...
 
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Gordie

Gordie

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Ok. I think I'm getting it.

By the way - ClaudiusB - I checked out your brewery pics. Good lord, man. That looks like NASA and Dogfish Head had a kid.

So - in the interest of furthering my DIY abilities (which are quite newly founded and weak) I have an extra adaptor for my laptop lying around. Would it make sense to cut off the plugs and wire that from the busses I have in my control panel and send the output to a new bus and resistor to use for the LEDs? I have some room in my panel and could fit it inside without much problem.

Other than that, I'm not seeing an indication of the LED current in the specs to calculate what resistor I would need. Am I missing something?

I really appreciate the help, guys. I've been trying to figure this out on my own but this is way out of my skill-set. If y'all need any legal advice, let me know.

Gordie.
 

ClaudiusB

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Continuous forward current for Toggle Switch type CF is 10 mA.
Forward voltage 1.9 V


Would it make sense to cut off the plugs and wire that from the busses I have in my control panel and send the output to a new bus and resistor to use for the LEDs?
Yes

Open the adaptor, remove the board and the 120 V prongs, replace prongs with soldered wires.

Sample idea



Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
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Gordie

Gordie

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You guys rule.

Quick question - If I develop a serious lack of initiative and decide to try and just bridge the 120vac over to the LED side of the circuit, other than just glowing orange - what's the worst that can happen?


Gordie
 

tedski

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You guys rule.

Quick question - If I develop a serious lack of initiative and decide to try and just bridge the 120vac over to the LED side of the circuit, other than just glowing orange - what's the worst that can happen?


Gordie
Burn up the LED. I'd sooner leave those pins open.
 

ClaudiusB

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Check your part number for "W or G" contact material.

G is limited to 28 V AC/DC.

If rated for 120 V you need a 12 K resistor, 1 Watt min..
The resitor will get warm.

Get new switches made for your application with 120 V neon lamps.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 

bad coffee

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Or add a small 120-3v transformer, a rectifier, and a few resistors.

All are small enough to fit inside your box (unless it's packed tight)

gimme a few and i'll mouser some parts.

B
 

Drustanos

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resistor ( Without re-reading the whole thread, I think it was 1.9v forward and I based it on 20ma)
MF1/4DC6200F
If I read the datasheet right, it said max continous for that switch led is 10mA. Better make it 7 or 8 to extend lifetime.
 
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Gordie

Gordie

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Groovy. Ok - at this late date at least I'm thinking I can read the specs. I found my old receipt and I have model number M2112TCFW01-RO. So -

Forward peak current - 25 mA
Continuous forward current - 10 mA
Forward voltage - 1.9 V

My contact material is code W, which gives me 6A @ 125VAC or 3A @ 30V DC.

Bad Coffee - dude I really appreciate you running down the part numbers but looking through the catalog and the data sheets has made me realize my limitations on that one. I think I'm going to harvest an old 12V adaptor and wire the output to the LEDs.

With the 10 mA forward current rating (I don't really know what that means, but oh well) is that resistor still suitable? Also - and this may sound like a dumb question, but I'm planning on soldering a resistor to each #5 connection (the (+) ) on each switch. Would it make sense to simply place one resistor in-line at the power out of the adaptor and then to a bus and from there wire the switches? Its not like they're expensive or anything but the more I tinker the more I can break...

Also - I just uploaded pics of the control panel into my profile if that helps.

Gordie.
 

Drustanos

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With the 10 mA forward current rating (I don't really know what that means, but oh well) is that resistor still suitable?
Its easy to find the resistor value. ( Vsource - LEDVoltage) / LED current

8ma = 0.008A

( 12V - 1.9V ) / .008A = 1.262k

Anything around there will work.
 

ClaudiusB

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With the 10 mA forward current rating (I don't really know what that means, but oh well) is that resistor still suitable?
In simple terms:
The forward current is the current flowing through the LED in the on mode (turned on).
At 10 mA the LED emits the maximum amount of light energy (brightness) for continuous operation for X hours (Data sheet required).
Lowering the forward current will effect the light output (brightness) of the LED and can increase the live of the LED (Data sheet required).

Peak current is the max current the LED can handle for a short period of time (given in the data sheet).
Example use , pulsing light at high brightness.

1.2K Ohm as per Drustanos post is a good value for your application.
Any standard wattage from 1/8-1/4 is OK.


My edit:
Also - and this may sound like a dumb question, but I'm planning on soldering a resistor to each #5 connection (the (+) ) on each switch.
Perfect!
The LED's don't care how the resistor is connected to (+) or (-) on the switch.
Would it make sense to simply place one resistor in-line at the power out of the adaptor and then to a bus and from there wire the switches?
Will only work if you turn on one switch at a time without changing the brigthness.
Turning more than one on will affect the LED brigthness.


Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 

Drustanos

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I'm not sure if its been mentioned, but that switch has two LED's in it. Just reverse polarity for a different colour. Could get a little tricky if you want to light both LED's at different positions. I would suggest only using the green one for ON.
 

ClaudiusB

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Could get a little tricky if you want to light both LED's at different positions. .
We could use the switch for a non brewing project, useless I think.
Based on the color of the LED's we can identify an unknown voltage applied to two terminals as DC, DC polarity or AC.

Just leave the switch in the on possition and use four diodes and one resistor.
As long we use low volts and forward current no other parts are required.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 

Drustanos

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I think we have this guy confused enough.

Really, a little H-bridge would work nicely for changing colours.
 
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Gordie

Gordie

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Righto. I've got a plan and actually understand what I'm doing. I think. My biggest issues come from the idea that I generally understand the concepts but I don't know the terminology, which - clearly - makes things a bit muddy. I'm coming around though...

Ok. I'm off to harvest an adaptor and source some resistors and whatnot. I'll check in later to let y'all know if I blew myself up or not.

Gordie.
 

bad coffee

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From the PDF you provided and the model number, the switch is one common and two discrete poles for the two LED's.

From the PDF:

12vdc + -----/\/\/\/------- Pin 5
12vdc - ----------------pin 4 ------jumper------ pin 6

From the schematic on the pdf, it looks like there might be an internal jumper. Put a meter on it and see if you have continuity across 4 and 6. If not, solder a jumper on it.

cool switches btw.
 

oldschool

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You could have just got 120V switches/indicators and saved yourself time and $$.
 
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