Windows 10 - Finally some sanity

[Hoppity]

It's been awhile, but IIRC, Win ME was a nightmare sidetrack when MS was trying to split their user base between Corporate (NT Server/User) and Home computing (ME), ostensibly to maximize revenues. 2000 evolved to standardize file systems (NTFS) and use NT-like dynamic driver loading. ME was a nightmare to support from a system integrator's standpoint. Redmond treated ME like a red-headed step-child because they had their hands full trying to gain market share in the corporate world with Windows NT. NT User/Win 2000 evolved to XP and Win 9.x and ME ended up on the scrap heap, eliminating their idiotic two desktop strategy. Then again, my memory isn't what it used to be and I didn't double check any of this.

 

[podz]

Can it run in a Win7 VM under Linux?

Most likely requires a dongle, so probably no.

 

[fbold1]

I have Win 8 on a desktop, laptop, tablet and phone, and I am very satisfied with the way they all communicate. They transfer documents and photos via skydrive. Microsoft hears the complaints and is constantly improving the system.

 

[kkramer56]

Why does it seem like every-other Windows OS is complete garbage?

Windows 9x worked well enough; Windows 2000/NT was a completely unnecessary iteration. I liked XP just fine; Vista was $#!t. Windows 7 was awesome. Windows 8 freaking blows.

Hopefully Windows 10 will be decent (where the hell is Windows 9, by the way?), but I think I'll be sticking with Windows 7 until it stops being supported.

Edit: interesting about the windows 9/9x thing, I hadn't thought of that.

I agree with you on the windows 7 thing, but 98 was problematic. Win 2000 on the other hand was extremely stable.

 

[jcoxen]

Any OS with the capability for remote access has the potential for an open back door so long as someone tech savvy enough jiggles the lock long enough.

Very true. I'm a Systems Administrator in a shop where we run Windows, Macs and Linux in addition to our mainframe. We get security updates and patches for all of them. My advice - for desktop systems of any type (Windows, Mac or Linux) - turn on automatic updates and let it do what it needs to do. For servers - schedule a recurring monthly update time and stick to it. This is all in addition to the usual firewalls, anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-etc software and hardware you also need to have.

 

[DrunkleJon]

I've been using the Tech Preview for a few days.
I like it so far. Looks and feels like a cross between Win7 , 8.1 and Office
As far as Linux or Mac I can't use either at work because the software that we must use only works on Windows.
Couple of screen shots if I can get them to post.

I know its a work machine, but one of the things that irked me about 8.x versions is they took DVD playing capability out of the inbuilt media player because optical video is dying/dead, streaming is everything. Did they stand behind this decision with 10? With 8 apparently you have to pay for 8 ultimate and then pay extra for WMC as well and still find out that you should just use VLC instead.

 

[beernbourbon]

Can it run in a Win7 VM under Linux?

Not that I am aware. Like I said, not too familiar with background runnings, but whenever you try and do anything that is non-windows based such as running third party software through MicroStation without first running it through Bentley, it freaks out. Now, that could be as simple as them being all proprietary, but I don't know for sure. I'm guessing (big time) that they alter the code of whatever third party is needing integrated to fit their own programming.
But, then again, I'm one of those annoying users that knows just about enough of how this stuff works to really muck it up.....

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I know its a work machine, but one of the things that irked me about 8.x versions is they took DVD playing capability out of the inbuilt media player because optical video is dying/dead, streaming is everything. Did they stand behind this decision with 10? With 8 apparently you have to pay for 8 ultimate and then pay extra for WMC as well and still find out that you should just use VLC instead.

While I do agree that taking DVD playback out is rediculous, this did not bother me a single bit. VLC is a much better player hands down.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

If the remote access methods are documented and configurable, then a savvy user can disable them. In Linux the user has pretty much complete control, if they are the admin. Windows has stuff hidden and/or inaccessible by the user, which therefore cannot be disabled. There have been too many cases of corp cooperation with NSA, etc. for me to have complete faith in the security of any corporate OS product. And if NSA, etc. can get to a back door, so can hackers.

Brew on

Like wise if remote access methods are documented and configurable, even just a somewhat savvy hacker can reenable them so long as said system is network connected.

The only real security afforded to Linux, and Mac for that matter, is lack of numbers. I guarantee you that if enough people got onboard with Linux for it to be the majority OS, then it would have just as many security issues as MS and therefore measures would be taken to conceal the code to make it harder to hack.

 

[beernbourbon]

Most likely requires a dongle, so probably no.

Nope, hasn't required a dongle since MicroStation V7 back in something like 02/03?

 

[Seven]

Another Windows 8 hater here. MS really screwed the pooch by trying to force everyone to use their Metro UI. And while Classic Shell does resolve the main Metro issue, Windows 8 still has other curious oddities that Classic Shell does not fix.

I'm hoping they get it right with Windows 10.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I think now I have poked around at everything I could find in Win8.1 and there are only two things about it that I really just hate.

1.) I hate how many apps require a microsoft account login for basic functionality. Really MS, I have to log in to my microsoft account for the calendar app?

2.) I hate how OneDrive is embedded into the OS. I know I can turn off the sync option in PC settings to essentially shut it down but I should be able to opt out if I choose to. Turn it off as a windows feature like I can with IE. Or just uninstall it as an app. From what I have read you have to really dig to strip it out.

 

[stratslinger]

I don't get what's the problem with OneDrive - if you don't want to use it, just ignore it.

But I've found it's super useful, personally. I installed it on my Win7 laptop not long ago, and migrated all my documents up to it. Left it on someone else's plate to back up my files. And guess what? A couple months after doing so, my laptop died, utterly and completely. So I picked up a new one, logged into Win8.1 (promptly installed Start8 because I didn't spring for a touchscreen laptop and that interface stinks with a mouse/keyboard), then went to my SkyDrive and all my files were right there where I had left them. And my phone automatically archives its photos there, so I can dump photos from the phone readily, preserving storage and easily making those photos accessible on my PC without ever having to manually synch anything. It's actually pretty convenient.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I don't get what's the problem with OneDrive - if you don't want to use it, just ignore it.

But I've found it's super useful, personally. I installed it on my Win7 laptop not long ago, and migrated all my documents up to it. Left it on someone else's plate to back up my files. And guess what? A couple months after doing so, my laptop died, utterly and completely. So I picked up a new one, logged into Win8.1 (promptly installed Start8 because I didn't spring for a touchscreen laptop and that interface stinks with a mouse/keyboard), then went to my SkyDrive and all my files were right there where I had left them. And my phone automatically archives its photos there, so I can dump photos from the phone readily, preserving storage and easily making those photos accessible on my PC without ever having to manually synch anything. It's actually pretty convenient.

I don't have any need for it. My only problem is because I don't use the feature, don't need or want it. But I cannot remove it and therefore it is something I will have to periodically check to make sure it is behaving as I intend it to.

It's akin to the "fappening". Don't want files hacked on the cloud, don't put them there to get hacked. My issue is that I don't have an absolute choice here and now it is my responsibility to make sure it does not get updated to upload files by default when I should be able to remove it and just forget about it.

 

[stratslinger]

But it's literally one folder that you place files into (literally the "SkyDrive" folder), and they get uploaded to the cloud. Don't put files there, they don't get uploaded. It's not rocket surgery.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

The only real security afforded to Linux, and Mac for that matter, is lack of numbers. I guarantee you that if enough people got onboard with Linux for it to be the majority OS, then it would have just as many security issues as MS and therefore measures would be taken to conceal the code to make it harder to hack.

Disagree completely. In the enterprise/datacenter world, Linux is definitely the majority. Given that these systems are also major *targets* for hackers, as they generally contain sensitive or valuable data -- I think that there are inherent security advantages of open-source. One of the takeaways from Heartbleed was not that Linux was insecure, but rather that too many companies were relying on *others* to ensure Linux was secure instead of hiring security experts. It was a wake-up call that they needed to employ experts who would be scouring code for similar issues. In the Windows world they can't scour the code because it's closed-source, and thus only Microsoft has visibility into where it is or is not vulnerable.

Where I'll agree with you, however, is on the general malware/spyware/virus front. Most malware/spyware requires a user to actually install it or run it, usually due to their own poor security practices. Linux isn't targeted by most of these folks because so few people use Linux and generally the users of Linux are more tech-savvy about protecting themselves from these sorts of threats.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

But it's literally one folder that you place files into (literally the "SkyDrive" folder), and they get uploaded to the cloud. Don't put files there, they don't get uploaded. It's not rocket surgery.

No. OneDrive also has settings to upload photos and videos automatically.

Besides, the "ignore it and it will go away" mentality does not suit me. Never seems to work, anywhere, in life.

 

[stpug]

Besides, the "ignore it and it will go away" mentality does not suit me. Never seems to work, anywhere, in life.

Except with Pedio's ropiness (afterall, this is a brewing forum )

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Except with Pedio's ropiness (afterall, this is a brewing forum )

There should be a coccus for that.

 

[doug293cz]

disagree completely. In the enterprise/datacenter world, linux is definitely the majority. Given that these systems are also major *targets* for hackers, as they generally contain sensitive or valuable data -- i think that there are inherent security advantages of open-source. One of the takeaways from heartbleed was not that linux was insecure, but rather that too many companies were relying on *others* to ensure linux was secure instead of hiring security experts. It was a wake-up call that they needed to employ experts who would be scouring code for similar issues. In the windows world they can't scour the code because it's closed-source, and thus only microsoft has visibility into where it is or is not vulnerable.

Where i'll agree with you, however, is on the general malware/spyware/virus front. Most malware/spyware requires a user to actually install it or run it, usually due to their own poor security practices. Linux isn't targeted by most of these folks because so few people use linux and generally the users of linux are more tech-savvy about protecting themselves from these sorts of threats.

+1

 

[Donal]

Disagree completely. In the enterprise/datacenter world, Linux is definitely the majority. Given that these systems are also major *targets* for hackers, as they generally contain sensitive or valuable data -- I think that there are inherent security advantages of open-source. One of the takeaways from Heartbleed was not that Linux was insecure, but rather that too many companies were relying on *others* to ensure Linux was secure instead of hiring security experts. It was a wake-up call that they needed to employ experts who would be scouring code for similar issues. In the Windows world they can't scour the code because it's closed-source, and thus only Microsoft has visibility into where it is or is not vulnerable.

Where I'll agree with you, however, is on the general malware/spyware/virus front. Most malware/spyware requires a user to actually install it or run it, usually due to their own poor security practices. Linux isn't targeted by most Allof these folks because so few people use Linux and generally the users of Linux are more tech-savvy about protecting themselves from these sorts of threats.

Way, way off base. from a desktop % Linux is about 1.5% vs. M$ 75%+-ish. Desktop are the target. *most* malware is targeting desktops, so 75-1, if I'm a greedy, enterprising, overly-curious hacker I'm going with a windows target.

Servers? pretty even, so it's a pick 'em, even if the "majority" of those Linux svrs are acting as VM for Windows guests, so Windows prob wins here too.

opinion that Linux svrs aren't properly protected by in house staff, 100% agree, way too many companies are outsourcing, because staff can't support Linux properly.

All per my experience as a It mgr for last 20+ yrs
P.S. - All Windows releases either suck or totally rock, until the next one comes out....., so going with the odd/even idea on that one...

 

[podz]

All operating systems suck. Some suck less than others, naturally. OpenBSD sucks the least of them all, but I still prefer OS X for my laptop.

That said, non-mobile operating systems are seriously on the wane. They have fallen down to three functions now:

1. server
2. powerpoint / excel machine
3. gaming platform


They don't sell PCs in supermarkets anymore, there aren't shops where you go and buy all the components to build a machine anymore, you don't find PCs in the garbage anymore, they are rarely seen in second hand stores, etc.

Teens, and a large majority of adults, today don't even touch computers, everything is done via mobile phone or iPad. They don't use email, they don't use removable media, they don't even know what the hell a hard drive is. These teens today will be the managers tomorrow and mobile operating systems will definitely rule the day.

When it comes to mobile OS, you are compromised from day one.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Now is the time I like to point out that XP was supposed to be the last Windows operating system. That is why they did away with version numbers, it was supposed to be the Windows XP(erience). It was meant to be a subscription based OS where upgrades came out as service packs instead of new versions. This is especially fitting because it is still holding on and in existance. I still like you XP

 

[stratslinger]

Actually, they just discontinued all support for XP a few months ago. No more Service Packs, security fixes, or the like are available for it.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Actually, they just discontinued all support for XP a few months ago. No more Service Packs, security fixes, or the like are available for it.

Hence 'supposed'. Funny thing is it still is on a lot of computers with no signs of fading away.

 

[beernbourbon]

All operating systems suck. Some suck less than others, naturally. OpenBSD sucks the least of them all, but I still prefer OS X for my laptop.

That said, non-mobile operating systems are seriously on the wane. They have fallen down to three functions now:

1. server
2. powerpoint / excel machine
3. gaming platform


They don't sell PCs in supermarkets anymore, there aren't shops where you go and buy all the components to build a machine anymore, you don't find PCs in the garbage anymore, they are rarely seen in second hand stores, etc.

Teens, and a large majority of adults, today don't even touch computers, everything is done via mobile phone or iPad. They don't use email, they don't use removable media, they don't even know what the hell a hard drive is. These teens today will be the managers tomorrow and mobile operating systems will definitely rule the day.

When it comes to mobile OS, you are compromised from day one.

Gonna have to completely disagree. There are at least two shops here that sell mass amounts of individual components, not to mention the plethora of online places that do as well. I can walk into any one of these shops and pick components anywhere from cheap azz barely able to run an OS up to hard core liquid cooled video cards (what I use daily)

Not sure what industry/profession you are in, but the entire civil engineering community is still very much a 'desktop' user group, particularly the production group. The prices for laptops to be able to do what we do are outrageous, and the other 'mobile' units just are completely useless for our applications.

Email is still a huge part of corporate America at large, especially the "Professional" sector, 'removable' media (clarification-our use is high capacity "thumb drives") is a mainstay of how we transfer sensitive data to and from particular stations/users/field to office, and of course the hard drive goes with the use of said desktop, and that has gone from the easily damaged record player in a tiny box to an impact resistant high speed solid state drive that is quickly becoming the standard for high intensity production applications.
From what I have seen, any attempts to move these Professional and corporate users to some sort of "cloud" or pseudo social media communication method has been met with much head shaking and literally laughing out loud.

I don't see the production work stations going anywhere any time in the foreseeable future. As I mentioned in a previous post, Win7PRO is where we stop upgrading until the software can catch up to I guess now Win10. It is rare I have run across Win8 users that aren't simply managers that do zero production, and those that do occasionally do production.....yeah, they have the Win7 machine still sitting on their desk, loaded with the necessary software.

 

[Beer-lord]

I've not read thru all the thread but am going to be in the minority when I say I have no problems with W8. That said, there's absolutely no reason to go from W7 to W8.
I build my own computers, have cable card tv tuners to record as many as 10 shows at a time (don't need to pay the cable man for a DVR box) and with Start8, I can get my W8 systems to look and act just like W7. Boot up times with a SSD only takes 10-12 seconds with W8 (I am not exaggerating) and I've not found any program that won't work for me yet.
I was a beta tester for Microsoft for Windows Vista and Windows 7 as well as Windows Media Center but no longer test anything for them.
I think Microsoft is trying too hard to be like Apple and Apple is trying to hard to come out with something new every 6 months and I am tired of it all.

 

[hunter_le five]

Hence 'supposed'. Funny thing is it still is on a lot of computers with no signs of fading away.

Most of our company's computers still run XP.

On an enterprise level, changing over can be hard. We "started" trying to convert everything to Win7 back in January, but getting all the bugs worked out has proven to be a huge task. We use a lot of custom-written software (and the man who wrote most of it is dead), and it has taken a lot of work to get it to play nice with a new OS.

We've just now got everything working like it should (knock on wood) on the few computers we switched over way back then as a "test run", so hopefully soon we can make the switch on all the other machines now that we actually know how to fix all the problems.

Needless to say lack of OS support/updates/security patches is a huge security risk in itself, so we are anxious to upgrade everything asap.

My brother tells me it's even worse at his company. They just finished converting all of their systems to XP about a year or so ago after a multi-year ordeal. Similar situation, lots of custom-software designed for Win98 that wasn't readily compatible with WinXP. By the time they get converted to Win7 or 8, it will probably be obsolete.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Yeah, we were supposed to be done upgrading all of ours months ago. Its amusing how slowly it all goes. And how well planned in some cases (not necessarily yours)

Edit: I meant how poorly planned it was in some cases, and not meaning yours. Ours has been a cluster...

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Hence 'supposed'. Funny thing is it still is on a lot of computers with no signs of fading away.

And still wants to push the Windows as a subscription based experience. I read that is what pushed OneDrive into the market. Get their files first, the push the OSLive.