Will this work?

[StitchMySmile]

I just finished my first cider, unfortunately I only used apple juice. It turned out pretty watery, and after researching it seems that just using motts apple juice is a bad way to go.

I don't particularly have access to ready made cider to ferment so I was thinking of using 4.5 gallons of motts apple juice then filling the rest of the volume with organic frozen apple concentrate. Do you guys think this will work? Or would it yield watery results once again?

 

[WilliamSlayer]

It all depends on your yeast and the gravity you get.(both starting and final) also, I would look to make such a brew a bit more 'complex' as far as taste is concerned by adding some tannins or spices such as cinnamon.

 

[MarkKF]

I used frozen apple juice concentrate and it came out fine. Bottled juice is just as good. No preservatives.

 

[huntingohio]

Any juice will most likely be watery. The "thickness" your looking for is the startches and pectin that are in cider, [filtered out when made into juice, hence the difference between the two].
You could try making graff if you want more body. Possibly even fermenting the juice with another fruit such as crushed strawberries or pulped bannanas. They may leave behind enough pectin to give it some extra body but not as much as cider.

My advice make it sparkling and spiced, it will make a good drink all winter

 

[LeBreton]

Body doesn't come from pectin, you may be confusing it with tannin which can be purchased as an additive at most LHBS to increase body/texture in wine (great for cider too since it's an apple wine). Ripe apples should have minimal starch as well since it should be converted to sugars by then. Cider body comes from countless favor compounds, and sugar, that exist in the fruit.

OP, the problem you are coming up against is that most grocery store apple juice (the clear stuff) is made from what is commonly called dessert and eating apples. These apples have a high level of sugar and not much else as the clear juice is supposed to be a sweet beverage. Once the sugars are taken away via fermentation the resulting cider can be very thin in body. Good cider can be made from desert apples by increasing the variety into a 'big blend'. Adding the concentrate will definitely bring more variety and body to the cider but can also quickly up the ABV and require longer aging.

You can try to add more body to your current cider by backsweetening with concentrate and adding tannin extract as well.

 

[huntingohio]

What I meant was the "THIN" feel of juice is because it is filtered. Cider even unfermented has more of a body to it than a juice. This thickness or richness is because of the fact that cider is unfiltered leaving starch and pectin behind [which are what the fruits flesh are comprised of, even after some starches have converted to sugar there are still starches, thats what makes up the fruits flesh].
The thickness im refering to is actual plant matter.

You can use juice and play with tannins to try and give it a percived mouth feel that its thicker, but imho it wont match. It keeps a generic chemical flavor, that a lover of cider can tell is not natural. Yes I do understand that there are naturally occuring tannins in the apple, and using certain breeds of high tannin apple like a crabapple for example can up the tannin content, however most people here dont have a scratter or a press to take advantage of this.

Ciders percieved thickness isnt percieved, it actually is thicker because there are more dissolved solids in cider vs juice.

Cider is no where near making wine, a good cider should have the dissolved solids of the plant matter, and really should be fermented with beer yeast.
Then left to sit on the lees to increase the malolactic fermentation.

The highly refined 12% abv and up clear ciders being sold today should really be called apple wine, because its a finer process that of a country cider.

 

[Pommeau]

ohio,
Spot on with Crab apples, I've got about 70lbs I've got to thaw so they are ready for this saturday.
But I've always had the solids drop out with racking. If there are solids they are so small I cant see them.
They drop out by the time I bottle/keg. Tannins are what gives me a thick feel.

 

[LeBreton]

Perhaps we're not talking about the same thing. 'Body' of hard cider typically refers to taste and depth/layers of flavor, and not how much floating particulate is left after fermentation. You may have read some bad information regarding the relationship between the density of raw cider and clear juice. When cider is filtered to become juice the density will not change since you are only removing suspended solids which only displace liquid and not the dissolved compounds which effect the density of a liquid.

Not sure why you think naturally derived tannins would leave a chemical taste, maybe you could expand on that thought.

Cider making is definitely like wine making, but with apples. The techniques and process are practically identical not to mention equipment. Delicious ciders are commonly made with wine yeasts as well as with ale yeasts, and as covered, have no dissolved apple solids in either the raw or finished product.

 

[huntingohio]

Perhaps we're not talking about the same thing. 'Body' of hard cider typically refers to taste and depth/layers of flavor, and not how much floating particulate is left after fermentation. You may have read some bad information regarding the relationship between the density of raw cider and clear juice. When cider is filtered to become juice the density will not change since you are only removing suspended solids which only displace liquid and not the dissolved compounds which effect the density of a liquid.

Not sure why you think naturally derived tannins would leave a chemical taste, maybe you could expand on that thought.

Cider making is definitely like wine making, but with apples. The techniques and process are practically identical not to mention equipment. Delicious ciders are commonly made with wine yeasts as well as with ale yeasts, and as covered, have no dissolved apple solids in either the raw or finished product.

I guess opinions are like .. wel you know.
I have alwayts hated the wine tannin stuff I feel like it imparts an almost unatural flavor on cider [maybe because its derived from grape tannin]
I do add crab apples when I grind for added apple tannins.

I know in the wine world tannin is what is counted on for body. However if you get a glass of apple juice, and a glass of cider side by side and sip each you will notice the juice feels thin and weaker, even from the same grind.

The style I like is comonally refered to as country cider, as soon as its done fermenting dry its siphoned off, primed and bottled. This leaves some suspended yeast and apple solids still in the cider. It usaually ends up a single stage fermatation [more like beer than wine] with an aprox6-8% abv cider.

The crystal clear cider is more of a euopean style, I find them more akin to wine, as the processes are more refined.

My definition of cider like yours is fermented from apples, but thats about where the line is.

I have played with euro style ciders [repeated rackings, acid titration, finings, ect ect] Im not a large fan of them [except cyser]. I also grew up on farmhouse style cider.

 

[LeBreton]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about certain things as my first hand experience has shown no difference in flavor between raw and filtered apple juice of the same batch.

The tannin I get around here is from chestnuts, not grapes. Maybe it tastes different as I find it blends in pretty well with apples so long as it's in reasonable quantities. Would definitely prefer to use tannic apples in the base bend than 'make up' lost ground with tannin additive of any kind though.

I will admit to being much more versed in modern American and European (traditional and modern) ciders and rarely do I come across what you call 'country cider' (like the term BTW) and those which I have encountered were made by amateurs with more enthusiasm than knowledge. I'm sure in the right hands it makes a delicious product.

 

[huntingohio]

Wouldnt wa all prefer to use tannic apples? things kill your scratter though.

Country cider actually would be brewed with the natural yeasts, but I had a problem with acetobacter liking to make mine into vinegar. So campden and us-05 where the cure.
It sounds amature but you have to know when the exact right moment to rack it into a bottling bucket prime and carb it is. You have to wait for a specific amount of the yeast and apple sediments to fall [I usally have more apple sediments in mine than comercial just due to the primitive nature of my scratter [in sinkerator] and press [upside down bottle jack]. Once bottled it is cellared for 2 months or so to allow the yeast to encourage some malolactic break down in the bottle.