Will this extention cord work?

[JONNYROTTEN]

I was in HF and saw this cord (in 25 ft)so I bought it thinking I could cut off the ends and replace them with 30amp M/F plugs.It's 10Gauge 3 wire but only rated for 15Amp?? 10G is 10G correct?? And should be good for a 220Amp setup?http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...u4KQAQ&usg=AFQjCNH3rdZb2c_UhjJlciwt6K8Sl2Wg6Q

 

[orangehero]

I use the same, works fine. It's rated 15A due to the plugs.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Nice,thanks. Way cheaper than 10G SJ cord at home depot.

 

[raouliii]

10G is 10G correct??

Maybe not, at HF.

 

[grathan]

I wonder if length can also play a role in amperage ratings.

 

[BikerBrewer]

I wonder if length can also play a role in amperage ratings.

25' isn't long enough to worry about.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

Another place is ebay, just search for RV cords, there are often good deals on 10/2 and 10/3.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[trimixdiver1]

I was in HF and saw this cord (in 25 ft)so I bought it thinking I could cut off the ends and replace them with 30amp M/F plugs.It's 10Gauge 3 wire but only rated for 15Amp?? 10G is 10G correct?? And should be good for a 220Amp setup?http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...u4KQAQ&usg=AFQjCNH3rdZb2c_UhjJlciwt6K8Sl2Wg6Q

You are going to get yourself hurt!!! It's a big no no to cut off extension cord plugs and recepticals and use the wire. They come as an assembly and not all follow the NEC for their ratings. Please don't be cheap with electrical components. If saving a lousy 20 bucks is your driving force, then stay away from a electrical brew rig.

 

[Owly055]

Note that the cord is triple tap...... which is why it is 10G. It should be perfectly fine for your 30 amp 240 circuit. 10G is 10G. Ignore alarmist nonsense. I've been doing things like this for over 50 years...... If you use common sense it will work fine.

It is important to note that you have only 2 actual conductors and a ground. If you are going to use this for 220, you CANNOT get 120 from it also. the ground must remain a ground. Some 220 equipment also has 120 circuits in it, and that requires a 4 conductor cord with L1, L2, Neutral, and Ground. DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF USING THE GROUND FOR A NEUTRAL. That is dangerous

Thus you can have a 30 amp 110 extension cord, or a 30 amp 220 cord but NOT both.


H.W.

 

[trimixdiver1]

Note that the cord is triple tap...... which is why it is 10G. It should be perfectly fine for your 30 amp 240 circuit. 10G is 10G. Ignore alarmist nonsense. I've been doing things like this for over 50 years...... If you use common sense it will work fine.



It is important to note that you have only 2 actual conductors and a ground. If you are going to use this for 220, you CANNOT get 120 from it also. the ground must remain a ground. Some 220 equipment also has 120 circuits in it, and that requires a 4 conductor cord with L1, L2, Neutral, and Ground. DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF USING THE GROUND FOR A NEUTRAL. That is dangerous



Thus you can have a 30 amp 110 extension cord, or a 30 amp 220 cord but NOT both.





H.W.

Alarmist huh? Just because you have been doing it WRONG for 50 years doesn't make it right. 50 years ago asbestos was not respected either, ask someone who has Mesothelioma if they wish they knew about the dangers.

We know the dangers of not doing electrical work to code....injury or death.

http://youtu.be/E-TWHGCKg7U

 

[orangehero]

There is nothing particularly dangerous with using these for a short cord for your 240V element. I don't know what asbestos has to do with anything, we have understood electricity pretty well for a long time now. Even at 6000W that's only 25A, 83% of the typically recommended 30A for 10 gauge cords. If you're going to run these behind your walls, that's a different matter, which is what is typically advised against. Perhaps you read that and misunderstood it. Go to home depot and you will see replacement plugs to repair appliances and extension cords. The only reason they are rated 15A is that the plugs are 15A plugs.

Depending on how you use your brew rig, I would recommend adding some braided sleeving for additional protection from abrasion.

 

[Owly055]

Alarmist huh? Just because you have been doing it WRONG for 50 years doesn't make it right. 50 years ago asbestos was not respected either, ask someone who has Mesothelioma if they wish they knew about the dangers.

We know the dangers of not doing electrical work to code....injury or death.

http://youtu.be/E-TWHGCKg7U

If you would kindly explain how changing ends on a cord of the proper gauge is dangerous I would appreciate it. If a 30 amp cord is 10 gauge, and you have a cord designed with one male end and 3 female ends that is 10 gauge, how is putting 30 amp ends on it dangerous...... You've lost me. In the real world we change ends on cords all the time. The important thing is weather the gauge of the wire is capable of carrying the current NOT what the cord was originally. I live in the REAL world........ You obviously live in some world where the only safe things are made in Chinese factories. I work with 480 3 phase all the time, as well as some very high current well into the hundreds of amps.

Since you seem so well versed in "code", please cite what "code" and where in that code it states that you should not use a 30 amp female plug on 10 gauge wire of a suitable length if it originally had 3 lower amperage plugs? Feel free to cite chapter and verse, and explain exactly HOW it's "dangerous".

Get REAL........... If the cord is capable of handling 30 amps safely, the ONLY consideration is limiting the cord to 30 amps. Injury or death??? Exactly HOW?

People who do not understand electricity should probably not attempt to work with it, and people who do know have real world knowledge and experience shouldn't be giving advice to others, and pretending to know.

H.W.

 

[trimixdiver1]

If you would kindly explain how changing ends on a cord of the proper gauge is dangerous I would appreciate it. If a 30 amp cord is 10 gauge, and you have a cord designed with one male end and 3 female ends that is 10 gauge, how is putting 30 amp ends on it dangerous...... You've lost me. In the real world we change ends on cords all the time. The important thing is weather the gauge of the wire is capable of carrying the current NOT what the cord was originally. I live in the REAL world........ You obviously live in some world where the only safe things are made in Chinese factories. I work with 480 3 phase all the time, as well as some very high current well into the hundreds of amps.



Since you seem so well versed in "code", please cite what "code" and where in that code it states that you should not use a 30 amp female plug on 10 gauge wire of a suitable length if it originally had 3 lower amperage plugs? Feel free to cite chapter and verse, and explain exactly HOW it's "dangerous".



Get REAL........... If the cord is capable of handling 30 amps safely, the ONLY consideration is limiting the cord to 30 amps. Injury or death??? Exactly HOW?



People who do not understand electricity should probably not attempt to work with it, and people who do know have real world knowledge and experience shouldn't be giving advice to others, and pretending to know.



H.W.

As for my experience, how does serving on a nuclear submarine sound? Or working in coal mines ( that's where the MSHA comes from Thats printed on SO cable) Or refueling and repairing nuclear fuel at 90% of the nuclear power plants in the world? Or being the ops manager at a conventional plant that generates 850mwe? I've sat through hours and hours of training on extension cord safety.

The issue is using a cable assembly, and using its components to meet standard wiring practices.

Here read this

http://m.ecmweb.com/code-basics/flexible-cords-cables-and-fixture-wire

While the article doesn't say you can't be a cheap ass and use a pre made extension cord, it does point out how it must be wired. Most extension cords don't have the insulation thickness to properly be strain relieved by the plug end or even a calums grip. They are not as flexible or able to take the abuse of normal day to day use.

If you have jury rigged extension cords handling 480 at you work, well I'm not going there.

Now SO or SJ cable is the exception, it's rated for that use.


I don't see how I would favor Chinese made crap? As a matter of fact the Chinese extension cords out there are exactly why I chimed in. Your going to put your trust in a cable made in China?

 

[orangehero]

So aside from there being no actual code restrictions, basically you think they are dangerous because they are not as flexible or able to take the abuse of normal day to day use (whatever that means, yet they are safe enough to use as a normal extension cord?) and possibly may not be properly strain relieved? In your link it even describes knotting the cord or winding the cord with tape as acceptable strain reliefs.

The majority of the components bought for electric brewing purposes are made in China.

 

[trimixdiver1]

So aside from there being no actual code restrictions, basically you think they are dangerous because they are not as flexible or able to take the abuse of normal day to day use (whatever that means, yet they are safe enough to use as a normal extension cord?) and possibly may not be properly strain relieved? In your link it even describes using knotting the cord or winding the cord with tape as acceptable strain reliefs.

The majority of the components bought for electric brewing purposes are made in China.

An extension cord is not meant for a permanent install. If you unplugged it after every use, then ok.


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[z-bob]

If that's really 10-3 cord, that's a heck of a price -- if you need 50' of it. Look at the markings on the side of the cord jacket. (probably says STW or SJTW) The "T" means it has a thermoplastic jacket, so it'll be stiff in cold weather.

(He's talkin' about lopping the ends off and adding 30A connectors.)

ETA: I zoomed way in on the picture and didn't see any markings. Of course maybe they just don't show up on the picture, but you better check what kind of cable they used.

 

[raouliii]

....Now SO or SJ cable is the exception, it's rated for that use......

Could the real issue only be if the cord is SO or SJ rated and actually 10 gauge?

The HF listing mentions a number of SO/SJ characteristics:
•Suitable for indoor and outdoor use
•Water-resistant jacket
•Rated for hard service

The OP might be a source for this information from the cord itself.

 

[orangehero]

It's SJTW.

 

[user 163849]

Yes MSHA and OSHA as well have extremely strict rules and regulations wherevever they apply. Thankfully they do not apply to the home shop/brewery. If they did we would all be wearing hard hats, steel toed boots and who knows what other protective gear while brewing.

There is absolutely nothing wrong or unsafe about replacing the ends on that extension cord if done properly. Not that long ago it was considered safe to run only 3 wires to a 120/240 volt dryer outlet. Only a little longer ago there were several rural water pumps which had a single wire ran about 10 feet off the ground for power. The galvanized steel water pipe was the return. I lived the first 18 years of my life using a pump powered in this fashion and no one died or even felt a shock from that setup.


I too have worked in power plants and a strip mine location. Even the safety officer at the power plant had a hard time understanding that the MSHA rules only applied at the mine not the plant. Some of the "safety" requirements in that workplace were nothing more than an exercise in control and in no way cotributed to a safer workplace.

The "Chicken Little crowd" will always be warning us about what they have been trained to think, sometimes said training is based on fantasy. Often it applies only to a very specific workplace and procedure.

 

[Owly055]

Yes MSHA and OSHA as well have extremely strict rules and regulations wherevever they apply. Thankfully they do not apply to the home shop/brewery. If they did we would all be wearing hard hats, steel toed boots and who knows what other protective gear while brewing.

There is absolutely nothing wrong or unsafe about replacing the ends on that extension cord if done properly. Not that long ago it was considered safe to run only 3 wires to a 120/240 volt dryer outlet. Only a little longer ago there were several rural water pumps which had a single wire ran about 10 feet off the ground for power. The galvanized steel water pipe was the return. I lived the first 18 years of my life using a pump powered in this fashion and no one died or even felt a shock from that setup.


I too have worked in power plants and a strip mine location. Even the safety officer at the power plant had a hard time understanding that the MSHA rules only applied at the mine not the plant. Some of the "safety" requirements in that workplace were nothing more than an exercise in control and in no way cotributed to a safer workplace.

The "Chicken Little crowd" will always be warning us about what they have been trained to think, sometimes said training is based on fantasy. Often it applies only to a very specific workplace and procedure.

Shakespeare titled a play "Much Ado About Nothing".......... That would be an appropriate title for this thread. Your post pretty much nails it. The cord obviously is designed for 30 amps. It's 10 gauge, and has three female ends. Good quality ends properly installed, combined with common sense........what more is there really to say about it? Perhaps we should talk about routing cords safely, and using ground fault outlets or breakers, etc.

Barely 20 years ago I removed knob and tube wiring from the attic of the house I was living in at the time, and replaced it with romex. Two bare conductors (not originally bare), passing between insulators, on top of the rafters, and through ceramic tubes where they penetrated timbers. No grounds of course. You've got to wonder why more homes didn't burn up!! Electricity is dangerous, no doubt about it. You can and do occasionally get bitten. I've dealt with 480 and water a lot..........not a good combination. Careless people get killed. I was once standing not far from a 200hp electric motor when it shorted out and the breaker failed to trip. It literally exploded, sending shrapnel through the wall..... I've never even hears of anything like that happening before or since. A lotta energy there!

H.W.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

This got a little more heated than expected but I appreciate the interest.
On the cord:
SJTOW 3/c 10AWG 60deg C FT2 300v
The ground wire is not bare,green jacket
I will only be plugging it in on brew day,going from spa panel to control box.Not in the wall
I will not be adding anything 110.simple one vessel 5500w element only.
It would have never occurred to me HF would use a "Lesser" 10G wire as someone suggested. The plugs a clear and the wire looks beefy
$20 will not break the bank but if I can get the same thing for less.. why not

 

[Tegra]

Hate to get radical here....

But the code allows 20 amp in 14g cable if the insulation is rated for the temp rise, the cable is in free air, and for temporary use.

(Kitchen kettles are 16 g and draw 15 amps)

It will get warm, but as the video previously posted shows, it does no get above the rated insulation temperature so can be considered safe if supervised.

Tom

 

[ingchr1]

In addition, in the work place cutting off a plug and replacing it with another plug is an issue of liability. The cord and plug in most cases are a listed assembly, either UL or some other recognized organization. Once you cut off the plug and replace it with another it's now modified and no longer a listed assembly. Now the company is open to liability if something were to happen with that modified assembly. Where I work if a plug were to get damaged on an extension cord, the cord gets replaced. On a hand tool we have to replace the entire cord assembly. If it can't be replaced or we can't get one from the manufacture, then the tool gets replaced.

At home if I have a damaged plug on an extension cord or tool, I replace the plug.

 

[Fatman_Brew]

This got a little more heated than expected but I appreciate the interest.
On the cord:
SJTOW 3/c 10AWG 60deg C FT2 300v
The ground wire is not bare,green jacket
I will only be plugging it in on brew day,going from spa panel to control box.Not in the wall
I will not be adding anything 110.simple one vessel 5500w element only.
It would have never occurred to me HF would use a "Lesser" 10G wire as someone suggested. The plugs a clear and the wire looks beefy
$20 will not break the bank but if I can get the same thing for less.. why not

The cable is rated for 30amps in itself. It is fine up to 140F.

A little background info: An extension cord for a common use household circuit is only rated for 15amps max due to UL/NFPA standards. Those circuits are only protected by 15amp overprotection, and the outlets and connectors are as well. Now for the wrinkle citing NFPA 70

240.5 (3) Extension Cord Sets. Flexible cord used in listed extension
cord sets shall be considered to be protected when
applied within the extension cord listing requirements.

Listed means rating on a cable assembly by the manufacturer. In this case 15amps. It is a violation to use it on a 20amp circuit.

240.5 (4) Field Assembled Extension Cord Sets. Flexible cord
used in extension cords made with separately listed and
installed components shall be permitted to be supplied by a
branch circuit in accordance with the following:
20-ampere circuits - 16 AWG and larger

You can field modify a cord to use on a 20amp circuit if the connectors meet the 20amp requirement by being rated by the manufacturers of the components as such. So technically it is a code violation, and I am sure the NFPA would not imagine someone wanting to make their own 30amp extension cord. If all your components match 30amp listing by manufacturer, and have 30amp overcurrent protection, and have GFCI protection, it is a safe condition. Just not meeting code. Unless it is classified as a hard use equipment cord..

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Im gunna say Im good LOL. 10g wire with 30amp plugs on a dedicated 30amp line with a 50amp gfci spa panel..Ya... Im good

 

[augiedoggy]

I wonder if length can also play a role in amperage ratings.

It sure does. this is why an actual appliance extension cord is so ridiculously stiff... there are other factors as I was told like the insulation on the wire... I used the harbor freight spool wire kit and learned later that there is no certifications on any of it and it wouldnt meet code if used in a business or inspected... not that either of those apply to me.

this is also why many 14g 50ft cord are only rated at 13 amps vs 15...and the 12g 50ft cords are 15amps

 

[augiedoggy]

Hate to get radical here....

But the code allows 20 amp in 14g cable if the insulation is rated for the temp rise, the cable is in free air, and for temporary use.

(Kitchen kettles are 16 g and draw 15 amps)

It will get warm, but as the video previously posted shows, it does no get above the rated insulation temperature so can be considered safe if supervised.

Tom

yup I used soow 12/3 (rated for 25a and insulated for up to 600v) for my 19amp elements and get a lot of slack here for not using 30a cord to power these elements... In reality I know if the element malfunctioned the short 6 ft run of 12/3 would handle the draw fine all the way up until the breaker blew... I could add more fuses or breakers but Honestly I look at my built in amp meter on a regular basis and know what the normal draw numbers are... 18.7-19.00 for my hlt, 17.4-17.6 for my BK and 3.9-4.0 amps for my rims..... the most I have ever seen at once is 24.X with two dc pumps on and the hlt and rims on at the same time... If you do things responsibly and research the components you use you should be fine whether is violates code or not..(sometimes a manufactuer just doesnt want to pay for all the testing for all the different applications but the product would pass/work fine)
I had a nice 6g twisted strand heavy duty appliance cord from a huge commercial xerox cad copier I tried to use as the power cord from my hot tube to my gfci panel and the inspector even said it was better than most replacement wire I could get at the hardware store with heavy insulation but since the insulation was missing its UL listing tag I had to replace it to pass inspection.... I find it funny that large brand name appliances aren't even always ul listed themselves... I have serviced $500k machines that arent... I wonder does this make them illegal to use in a business?

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

Im gunna say Im good LOL. 10g wire with 30amp plugs on a dedicated 30amp line with a 50amp gfci spa panel..Ya... Im good

WHAT!? This topic needs at least three more pages of discussion...



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[trimixdiver1]

yup I used soow 12/3 (rated for 25a and insulated for up to 600v) for my 19amp elements and get a lot of slack here for not using 30a cord to power these elements... In reality I know if the element malfunctioned the short 6 ft run of 12/3 would handle the draw fine all the way up until the breaker blew... I could add more fuses or breakers but Honestly I look at my built in amp meter on a regular basis and know what the normal draw numbers are... 18.7-19.00 for my hlt, 17.4-17.6 for my BK and 3.9-4.0 amps for my rims..... the most I have ever seen at once is 24.X with two dc pumps on and the hlt and rims on at the same time... If you do things responsibly and research the components you use you should be fine whether is violates code or not..(sometimes a manufactuer just doesnt want to pay for all the testing for all the different applications but the product would pass/work fine)
I had a nice 6g twisted strand heavy duty appliance cord from a huge commercial xerox cad copier I tried to use as the power cord from my hot tube to my gfci panel and the inspector even said it was better than most replacement wire I could get at the hardware store with heavy insulation but since the insulation was missing its UL listing tag I had to replace it to pass inspection.... I find it funny that large brand name appliances aren't even always ul listed themselves... I have serviced $500k machines that arent... I wonder does this make them illegal to use in a business?

Are they CE approved? Some grandfathering and it's good enough for the Europeans it's good enough for us apples.

 

[augiedoggy]

Are they CE approved? Some grandfathering and it's good enough for the Europeans it's good enough for us apples.

yes they are CE approved from what I remember...