Will My Beer Taste Better with a Starter

[mkukiela]

I have brewed only about 18 beers so far...half extract and half all-grain. I have never used a starter and never had a problem hitting my target FG. I have had no bottle bombs and my yeast had consistently done its job. I have mostly used White Labs but gave also used wyeast and a dry yeast once. I have never had a problem to date. Have I just been lucky? Will my beer taste different or any better if I use a starter?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Well starters are generally recommended for liquid vials for better vitality, and are pretty much required for bigger beers. Most draw the line at 1.06 if I remember correctly

 

[invictusbrew]

It really depends on the recipe. Different beers (and variations thereof) require higher pitching rates. So while some are fine with a single tube of white labs, or a starter may end up being negligible, others require a higher pitching rate (larger amount of viable yeast) so as not to stress your yeast and cause off or unwanted flavors, etc. I would recommend checking out some brewing software and taking a look at pitching rate calculators based on grain bill/batch size. While it is not the be all end all, it is a good starting point.

I would however say that, generally speaking, at least for me personally, making starters accounted for one of the greatest improvements I saw in my beers.

 

[mkukiela]

From brew toad to beersmith2. They have both recommended two vials but I have resisted just the same and have not had a problem.
Could the yeast nutrient or servomyces that put into the boil @ 15 minutes be helping me?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[RiverCityBrewer]

If your beer tastes good to you, why bother? That said, I've tasted many beers that were seriously under pitched and it was a detriment to the beer. Let your own taste buds be your guide.

 

[j1n]

pitching the right amount of yeast will improve your beers. So it really depends on the beer your making.

 

[catdaddy66]

I did not know about starters when I brewed before the interwebs, but since I've started using them I noticed improved quality for sure, mostly in taste.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[zoomzilla]

In a typical(if such a thing exists) 1.065 ale what's the difference between a starter and two properly rehydrated dry yeast packs?

 

[TallDan]

In a typical(if such a thing exists) 1.065 ale what's the difference between a starter and two properly rehydrated dry yeast packs?

As long as it's done right, nothing. Making a starter is just a way of getting enough yeast without buying a second pack of yeast. Not a big deal with dry yeasts, but with liquid, it can save some decent money.

Also, had to say hi, i went to middle school and high school in Plymouth, my parents live there. I hear there's a new brewery opening in town soon!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

For example, if I am brewing a beer that needs approximately 550 billion cells and my yeast vial has ~70% viability I would need 8 vials to pitch correctly. That is a ton of money! A stir plate, Erlenmeyer flask and a few pounds of DME pay for themselves very fast. Plus you can grow some extra yeast for your next beer and almost cutout buying yeast altogether .

 

[kh54s10]

In a typical(if such a thing exists) 1.065 ale what's the difference between a starter and two properly rehydrated dry yeast packs?

The main objects to making starters when using liquid yeast are to pitch enough healthy yeast and to save money.

You can pay for an extra vial or use about $1 worth of DME and make the starter.

Dry yeast is less expensive so it doesn't pay to make a starter. It is actually recommended that you do not make a starter with dry yeast.

 

[zoomzilla]

As long as it's done right, nothing. Making a starter is just a way of getting enough yeast without buying a second pack of yeast. Not a big deal with dry yeasts, but with liquid, it can save some decent money.

Also, had to say hi, i went to middle school and high school in Plymouth, my parents live there. I hear there's a new brewery opening in town soon!

Whoa hi talldan. Yes there is a brewpub opening soon. I went to an event they hosted and had some of their beer. Its good. My homebrew club is hoping to get a guest tap when they get started. When did you graduate?

 

[zwiller]

You guys where the starter made such a large improvement, what are exactly do you mean? Reduction of esters, improvement in esters, maltier, hoppier, etc.

I think yeast is quite forgiving and alot about starters is overrated, but they have their place for high OG beers (1.060+), lagers, and old yeast. These days, with all the fresh yeast I think the average brewers brewing an average beer is pretty much good to use a single vial/smack pack. That said, just made a 1.5l starter for an IPA that is 1.075 and I have been quite happy with the resulting beer with just a single vial/smack pack of chico but I do pickup a tiny bit of higher alcohols (boozy) now that I switched to dry english for it. Interested to see if the starter helps with that and hope it does not take away the nice fruitiness at the same time.

 

[TallDan]

Whoa hi talldan. Yes there is a brewpub opening soon. I went to an event they hosted and had some of their beer. Its good. My homebrew club is hoping to get a guest tap when they get started. When did you graduate?

Graduated 1997, I had older and younger sisters would graduated 1994 and 2001.

You guys where the starter made such a large improvement, what are exactly do you mean? Reduction of esters, improvement in esters, maltier, hoppier, etc.

Well, that's hard to say for most people, i know for me, over the course of six months and six batches, i switched from extract to all grain, got better control over my fermentation temperatures, and got a stir plate and flask for making starters. I can tell you that the beer I'm making now is better than the beer i was making before, but which change had the most impact? who knows... There are a couple articles out there with people that made side by side batches with and without starters, then posted their impressions. Then there's Jamil and others who have written and studied the effects of starters on homebrewing. I've been taking their word for it.

 

[philosofool]

In my opinion, an investment in some basic temperature control is a better improvement than an investment in a stir plate, bar and erlenmeyer, though the latter is still of value.

If you are pitching really healthy yeast, such as a fresh vial, then the main difference you get with a starter is reduced yeast growth (cells multiply fewer times before entering the anaerobic stage of fermentation), which in turn reduces ester and phenolic production. This can be a good or bad thing, depending on what you're looking for. For example, I recently found Wyeast 3711 (French Saison) to produce wonderful fermentation character with no starter, and it might actually have been reduced for the worst if I had made a starter for that beer. On the other hand, if you're looking for a relatively clean IPA or a lager style beer, those esters will no be appreciated. Similarly, for a high gravity belgian ale, the phenoics might be too strong if you under pitch. As others have mentioned, in high gravity beers, you may also encounter problems with low pitch rates that include stuck fermentation, poor attenuation, and undesirable fermentation by-products.

I also suspect that part of the issue is not how this improves every beer you make where you could tell in a side by side test which had the proper pitch rate; rather, if you don't use a starter, it's more like you increase the chance of a failed batch: with a starter, you eliminate a 1 in 5 or 10 chance of failed or poor fermentation.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

My homebrew club did an aeration experiment. No shake/infusion all the way up to somehing like 30ppm of dissolved o2. It made a noticeable difference that a blind tasting revealed. I'd have to do the same test for the starters. Maybe this fall?

 

[mkukiela]

Thank you for these perspectives. Which leads me to wonder... Assuming (from some replies) under pitching will affect flavor, is the opposite also true? If I over pitch my yeast what affect will it have on my beer?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[pricelessbrewing]

It'll have significantly less ester production, and a yeasty taste from what I'm aware.

 

[zwiller]

From what I recall you have to really overdo it for this to occur.

I was waiting for the right time to jump into the starter thing and after reading brulosopher's take, I went with it. Made a 2l starter, will save 500ml for another brew and pitch 1.5l based on numbers from yeastcalc with Kai's stir setting.