Will 240v 30amp controller work on 240v 20amp circuit?

[Cato1507]

Right now I'm using a 240v induction burner for my BIAB, because it is compatible with my 20amp 240v table saw outlet in the garage. Uses a Nema 6-20 plug.

So curious if I wanted to go with say a 3750w boil coil, would a 30amp controller work by just changing the L 6-30 plug to a 6-20p?

 

[passedpawn]

That 3750 element will only draw 15A. So it's likely that the combination of it, and your pumps etc, will be under 20A. So, you're OK there.

A 30A controller will work fine on your 20A circuit.

 

[sicktght311]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Nema 6-20p is just 20amp 120v, not 240v. I dont think i've seen a 20amp 240v circuit. Are you sure thats a 240v line, and not just 120v??

 

[bucketnative]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Nema 6-20p is just 20amp 120v, not 240v. I dont think i've seen a 20amp 240v circuit. Are you sure thats a 240v line, and not just 120v??

All NEMA 6 connectors are three-wire, rated at 250 V, and are commonly used for 208 V and 240 V circuits.

 

[Cato1507]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but Nema 6-20p is just 20amp 120v, not 240v. I dont think i've seen a 20amp 240v circuit. Are you sure thats a 240v line, and not just 120v??

Yep, it's a 6-20p 250v plug, 3 wire and runs my 3hp jet tablesaw, as well as my 3500w induction burner.
Just looking at options if I were to bump up to a larger kettle.

 

[doug293cz]

If your control panel drives any 120V loads (e.g. pumps), then you need a four wire feed (H-H-N-G). With a three wire feed (NEMA 6-20) you only have H-H-G. Trying to get 120V by using a hot and ground will pop your GFCI every time.

Brew on

 

[Cato1507]

If your control panel drives any 120V loads (e.g. pumps), then you need a four wire feed (H-H-N-G). With a three wire feed (NEMA 6-20) you only have H-H-G. Trying to get 120V by using a hot and ground will pop your GFCI every time.

Brew on

Thanks for that info, I thought maybe an accessory like a pump would have a separate 120v outlet connection.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Thanks for that info, I thought maybe an accessory like a pump would have a separate 120v outlet connection.

Ya..why dont you just do that.

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks for that info, I thought maybe an accessory like a pump would have a separate 120v outlet connection.

You can certainly plug pumps into separate outlets. Many brewers want to be able to control everything from their panel, so have both 240V and 120V circuits in the panel. It's all about what works best for you.

Brew on

 

[Cato1507]

You can certainly plug pumps into separate outlets. Many brewers want to be able to control everything from their panel, so have both 240V and 120V circuits in the panel. It's all about what works best for you.

Brew on

I worded my reply poorly. What I meant to convey is that I thought there would be a way to wire in a 120v accessory into the panel. I had not given thought to a 4 wire setup that would make a 120v possible by using the neutral. However if not, I have a 120v gang box adjacent to my 240v outlet, so not a big deal to have to control it from a panel.

 

[augiedoggy]

I always wondered why so many who were trying to go electric on a budget are driven to use 5500w elements when options like yours or even the 4500w elements draw under 20a and require much cheaper cabling and nema plugs and outlets which as a whole bring on a huge cost savings... a 5500w element vs a 4500w element will net most 10gallon brewers a bout a 10 minute time savings on warmup.. thats it... Thats an expensive 10 minute for some.

 

[passedpawn]

I always wondered why so many who were trying to go electric on a budget are driven to use 5500w elements when options like yours or even the 4500w elements draw under 20a and require much cheaper cabling and nema plugs and outlets which as a whole bring on a huge cost savings... a 5500w element vs a 4500w element will net most 10gallon brewers a bout a 10 minute time savings on warmup.. thats it... Thats an expensive 10 minute for some.

Define expensive. If you're in it for the long haul - that is, a lifetime of brewing - amortizing a few extra bucks over the lifetime is nothing. Now, doing it twice or thrice or however many redo's people end up doing... priceless Often, expense is the best economy.

 

[augiedoggy]

Define expensive. If you're in it for the long haul - that is, a lifetime of brewing - amortizing a few extra bucks over the lifetime is nothing. Now, doing it twice or thrice or however many redo's people end up doing... priceless Often, expense is the best economy.

I see lots of threads here where people want to make the plunge to electric and are currently using stove or propane.. often expense is the thing holding them back, yet even when asking for advice on a budget build its either 5500w or 120v mentioned and no thought given to the stuff in between which could honestly make a big difference. for example a 20a 240v outlet uses the same romex as a 20a 120v outlet and the outlets themselves as well as the plugs are much cheaper. I have used both 4500w ripples and 5500w ripples and the difference is negligible really since they both get turned way down for the boil. all im saying it in some cases its a good alternative to consider.especially if your the type of person that moves and switches houses as some seem to do often..
The same can be said about overdoing your build.
We have a few folks here that jumped into 3 vessel pid systems only to find operating them is either over thier head or not what they prefer and end up going to biab or only use the manual mode on the pid... it happens.. ask appplescrap. people jump into buying or building things whithout having a good understanding of what benefits or cost are of each decision but rather based on suggestions from other who did the same thing they start with simple expectations but get talked into a full on automated control panel... I bet theres not a lot of folks here who have used a 4500w element but if they did they wouldnt even notice a difference.

 

[Cato1507]

I see lots of threads here where people want to make the plunge to electric and are currently using stove or propane.. often expense is the thing holding them back, yet even when asking for advice on a budget build its either 5500w or 120v mentioned and no thought given to the stuff in between which could honestly make a big difference. for example a 20a 240v outlet uses the same romex as a 20a 120v outlet and the outlets themselves as well as the plugs are much cheaper. I have used both 4500w ripples and 5500w ripples and the difference is negligible really since they both get turned way down for the boil. all im saying it in some cases its a good alternative to consider.especially if your the type of person that moves and switches houses as some seem to do often..
The same can be said about overdoing your build.
We have a few folks here that jumped into 3 vessel pid systems only to find operating them is either over thier head or not what they prefer and end up going to biab or only use the manual mode on the pid... it happens.. ask appplescrap. people jump into buying or building things whithout having a good understanding of what benefits or cost are of each decision but rather based on suggestions from other who did the same thing they start with simple expectations but get talked into a full on automated control panel... I bet theres not a lot of folks here who have used a 4500w element but if they did they wouldnt even notice a difference.

Lol, @augiedoggy I even have to turn down my 3500 w induction burner when it hits boil. Since I'm retired my time spent on brew day is not a big deal, since everyday is Saturday.
My ramp from cold tap water to strike temp is 20 mi, and from mash to a full vigorous boil is 16 min. I'm good with that time frame. That's on max 5 gal. Batch

I'm just single vessel, no sparge BIAB. Will likely stay with 3-5 gal batches, so only reason to upgrade would make some full volume boil recipes easier to accommodate in a 10 gal vs my 7.5 gal kettle.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

I see lots of threads here where people want to make the plunge to electric and are currently using stove or propane.. often expense is the thing holding them back, yet even when asking for advice on a budget build its either 5500w or 120v mentioned and no thought given to the stuff in between which could honestly make a big difference. for example a 20a 240v outlet uses the same romex as a 20a 120v outlet and the outlets themselves as well as the plugs are much cheaper. I have used both 4500w ripples and 5500w ripples and the difference is negligible really since they both get turned way down for the boil. all im saying it in some cases its a good alternative to consider.especially if your the type of person that moves and switches houses as some seem to do often..
The same can be said about overdoing your build.
We have a few folks here that jumped into 3 vessel pid systems only to find operating them is either over thier head or not what they prefer and end up going to biab or only use the manual mode on the pid... it happens.. ask appplescrap. people jump into buying or building things whithout having a good understanding of what benefits or cost are of each decision but rather based on suggestions from other who did the same thing they start with simple expectations but get talked into a full on automated control panel... I bet theres not a lot of folks here who have used a 4500w element but if they did they wouldnt even notice a difference.

While using a 4500w element on a 20 amp circuit would work, because it would draw 18.75 amps, it would technically not be code compliant. Your really supposed have a circuit at 125% the load. 125% of the load for 18.75 amps is 23.44 amps. So the circuit s/b at least 25 amp. If the wiring is 10 gauge a 30 amp breaker is fine. A 3800w element would work on a 20 amp circuit at 125% is 19.79 amps.

I totally agree with the statement about building 3 vessel PID systems and finding it is overkill. After building up and using mine for years, I am finding that I am doing BIAB more often than not, just because of the hassle of cleaning everything up before and after the brew day. Keeping it simple is a lot more enjoyable and my beers have never been better.

 

[augiedoggy]

While using a 4500w element on a 20 amp circuit would work, because it would draw 18.75 amps, it would technically not be code compliant. Your really supposed have a circuit at 125% the load. 125% of the load for 18.75 amps is 23.44 amps. So the circuit s/b at least 25 amp. If the wiring is 10 gauge a 30 amp breaker is fine. A 3800w element would work on a 20 amp circuit at 125% is 19.79 amps.

I totally agree with the statement about building 3 vessel PID systems and finding it is overkill. After building up and using mine for years, I am finding that I am doing BIAB more often than not, just because of the hassle of cleaning everything up before and after the brew day. Keeping it simple is a lot more enjoyable and my beers have never been better.

Im sorry but I believe your wrong here, I see this 125% or 80% terms thrown around here a lot.. For one these elements are rated at peak possible draw and most 4500w elements draw less and produce slightly less than 4500w I have 3 of them and one draws 16 amps and just over 4000w peak and the others barely hit 17- 17.45 amps.
But lets say you do get one that draws 18.75 amps... Your still perfectly fine to have it on a 20 amp circuit. The 80% rule only applies to continuous loads that last over 3 hrs... in a homebrewing application it will be on at full power until the boil is reached and thats it. then its turned down.. but even if its not your still under 3 hrs. Remember these are plug in appliances not hard wired devices. going by your math I believe your saying that only 15amp devices or less are allowed on a 20amp circuit right? think about that... I am aware of the breaker and thermal load causing tripping... its a 20 amp rated breaker not 15 they are rated to handle the full 20 amps in a continuous load up till 3 hrs time 18 amps or even 19 will honestly be no issue here.
here is something I just borrowed from an electricians forum

" Someone ask if a 25 amp load can be put on a 30 amp breaker. The answer is yes. Again, the definition of "continuous load" must be addressed. You can put a "noncontinuous load" on a 30 amp breaker. The breakers are listed to carry their full load for up to 3 hours. Then they are limited to 80 percent.
The hand-dryers that you see in rest rooms that say full-load 20 amperes can be installed on a 20 amp breaker and circuit. They are not continuous loads by Code. They are intermittent, thermostat controlled loads. "

 

[augiedoggy]

im going to also throw out the possiblity that 4500w ripple elements are lower watt density than the 5500w counterparts because they are in fact the same size as far as surface area. People often spend more to get this advantage with a boil coil but ignore the this alternative..

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

Im sorry but I believe your wrong here, I see this 125% or 80% terms thrown around here a lot.. For one these elements are rated at peak possible draw and most 4500w elements draw less and produce slightly less than 4500w I have 3 of them and one draws 16 amps and just over 4000w peak and the others barely hit 17- 17.45 amps.
But lets say you do get one that draws 18.75 amps... Your still perfectly fine to have it on a 20 amp circuit. The 80% rule only applies to continuous loads that last over 3 hrs... in a homebrewing application it will be on at full power until the boil is reached and thats it. then its turned down.. but even if its not your still under 3 hrs. Remember these are plug in appliances not hard wired devices. going by your math I believe your saying that only 15amp devices or less are allowed on a 20amp circuit right? think about that... I am aware of the breaker and thermal load causing tripping... its a 20 amp rated breaker not 15 they are rated to handle the full 20 amps in a continuous load up till 3 hrs time 18 amps or even 19 will honestly be no issue here.
here is something I just borrowed from an electricians forum

" Someone ask if a 25 amp load can be put on a 30 amp breaker. The answer is yes. Again, the definition of "continuous load" must be addressed. You can put a "noncontinuous load" on a 30 amp breaker. The breakers are listed to carry their full load for up to 3 hours. Then they are limited to 80 percent.
The hand-dryers that you see in rest rooms that say full-load 20 amperes can be installed on a 20 amp breaker and circuit. They are not continuous loads by Code. They are intermittent, thermostat controlled loads. "

I agree, code is written for continuous usage. It would more than likely work. I have popped my breaker a couple times running two elements at once and not governing them back. If you don't have an ammeter on your system I would err on the side of caution.

 

[geoffm33]

Right now I'm using a 240v induction burner for my BIAB, because it is compatible with my 20amp 240v table saw outlet in the garage. Uses a Nema 6-20 plug.

So curious if I wanted to go with say a 3750w boil coil, would a 30amp controller work by just changing the L 6-30 plug to a 6-20p?

Did you end up changing from the 3500W induction burner? I’m thinking of doing the same and have the same setup as you.

 

[Cato1507]

Did you end up changing from the 3500W induction burner? I’m thinking of doing the same and have the same setup as you.

No, i haven't changed my system. For me, the induction burner for 5-6 gallon max batches is a super and inexpensive heat source solution.

The quick ramp times, ease of clean up, and no maintenance are a slam dunk for my needs. Lol, for $8, I got a 3 year replacement policy on my burner, which was the one weak link I had concerns on when deciding whether to get a boil coil Pid type system or the induction at a significantly lesser cost.

However, I wanted to know my options should that size, which fits my existing circuitry, become unavailable or too costly in the future.