Wild chokecherry wine

[Grizz]

Thanks Yooper, I might just smash them in room temp water if cooking the cherries for the wine is not good (why is that?). Mabey I'll just remove the pits and try to stuff my mesh bags with the pulp. Also is it ok to use a conical fermenter for this wine?

 

[Yooper]

Thanks Yooper, I might just smash them in room temp water if cooking the cherries for the wine is not good (why is that?). Mabey I'll just remove the pits and try to stuff my mesh bags with the pulp. Also is it ok to use a conical fermenter for this wine?

I've never had a conical, but I can't imagine that it would make a difference.

I don't like cooking the fruit for wine for a couple of reasons- one is the taste is like "cooked fruit", like in a pie. Also, cooking the fruit sets the pectin (think jelly) and makes it a bear to clear.

 

[Grizz]

Everything is turning out pretty good, I found a large grain bag that I had stashed so that went smooth. Turns out I had enough cherries for 8 gallons, tomarrow I need to add the yeast. Do I add 2 packs or measure out exactly for 8 gallons? I'm using the ec-1118 yeast. Thanks!

 

[ouzel]

Hey Yooper, This is my first batch of wine I've ever attempted - so please bear with me

I didn't see where you added the grape concentrate in the instructions, I'm assuming it is before the primary. I'm making a 5 gallon batch, and I'm not sure what I was thinking but the grape concentrate never got added - i was in a hurry, when I should have been reading ahead in your instructions. So all I have as of right now in the primary right now is 15lb of chokecherries and the called for additives. It's been in the primary overnight and I just checked the OG and we're right at 1.090. So I have a couple of questions for you in hopes of making my first batch a success!

1. I have a feeling that the grape concentrate will make this wine. Can I still add it at this point? The bad news is, I do not have a supply store close by, and don't have any on hand. Can I use grocery store concentrate without having the end wine tasting like grape juice?

2. How important is the Champagne Yeast in terms of an ingredient and timing of adding it. Again, I should have read ahead and made sure I had this ingredient on hand - but I got too excited to get this wine going...

Sorry for the long post - and anything glaringly obvious for you experienced folks. Thanks for your help!

 

[Yooper]

Hey Yooper, This is my first batch of wine I've ever attempted - so please bear with me

I didn't see where you added the grape concentrate in the instructions, I'm assuming it is before the primary. I'm making a 5 gallon batch, and I'm not sure what I was thinking but the grape concentrate never got added - i was in a hurry, when I should have been reading ahead in your instructions. So all I have as of right now in the primary right now is 15lb of chokecherries and the called for additives. It's been in the primary overnight and I just checked the OG and we're right at 1.090. So I have a couple of questions for you in hopes of making my first batch a success!

1. I have a feeling that the grape concentrate will make this wine. Can I still add it at this point? The bad news is, I do not have a supply store close by, and don't have any on hand. Can I use grocery store concentrate without having the end wine tasting like grape juice?

2. How important is the Champagne Yeast in terms of an ingredient and timing of adding it. Again, I should have read ahead and made sure I had this ingredient on hand - but I got too excited to get this wine going...

Sorry for the long post - and anything glaringly obvious for you experienced folks. Thanks for your help!

1. You can add it now if you want- but it will increase your OG. You don't want regular grape juice- that grape concentrate is actually a wine grape concentrate. At this point, since your OG is 1.090, I'd leave it out. I've made it without, and it's still good but a bit less full bodied. You can always add it to secondary later, if you decide it needs a little more fullness and flavor.

2. You can use any good quality wine yeast. I like champagne yeast, but premier cuvee is good too.

 

[xoltri]

Thanks for the recipe, I started a 3 gallon batch of this tonight as I only had 9 lbs of choke cherries left after making jelly. We'll see how it turns out!

Actually, I had 8 pounds 10 ounces of choke cherries...I added 6 ounces of saskatoons to make up the difference. Otherwise I followed the recipe exactly. This is my first wine from fruit...seems like a lot of fruit for only 3 gallons.

 

[Powers]

This is my first wine from fruit...seems like a lot of fruit for only 3 gallons.

Especially after you wash and destem all those little berries

 

[xoltri]

Especially after you wash and destem all those little berries

That's true! Although I picked them while camping in early September so it wasn't too bad sitting around the fire and cleaning them.

 

[xoltri]

So I have a question for you Yooper. I transferred my chokecherry wine to my 3 gallon carboy today (sg 1.020), and it's way short, but maybe it's supposed to be like this?

Basically I cut the recipe by 5 to make 3 gallons. So I used 9lb fruit and I made a line on my primary (the red one in the photo) using my 3 gallon carboy. I topped it up, fruit and all, to this line when I started.

Today I removed the fruit and squeezed it until I couldn't squeeze no more, and this is all I got.

The starting gravity was 1.106 so that's pretty close to what you suggest. And the wine does look very dark compared to the kits I make.

Is it normal to have to add this much water?

 

[Yooper]

You don't want any headspace! I usually make fruit wines in a primary bucket, and then transfer to a carboy for secondary to top up. I have several three gallon carboys, and I use them often. I don't know why you have so little in your carboy, but the fruit does take up a bit of room.

In your case, you will want to get the wine out of there ASAP and get it into 2 one-gallon jugs (a #6 stopper will fit), or top it up with a bit of water and some fruity red wine. If you made a three gallon batch, you could probably use some water but not all water- that looks like it's barely 2/3 full! Oxidation will ruin the wine. You want almost NO headspace, and you can use whatever bottles/stoppers you need to get there. Here's a photo of some of my wines on a racking day, so you can see the amount of headspace, and the assortment of containers:

 

[xoltri]

Thanks for the quick response; I understand that much head space is not good but I wanted your advice before I acted. It is still fermenting at this point so I figured I had a day to await your response.

I guess my question is about the original recipe. I scaled it back for a 3 gallon recipe, but of course when I remove the fruit bag I'm not going to have 3 gallons anymore. I just didn't expect it to be this much short. So really the recipe for 3 gallons actually only gets you 2.25 gallons.

At this point I figure I'm at about 9L, so I'm about 2.3L short. I did the pearson's square calculation and if I used 100% water to top up I would end up with a 12% abv wine, which is not bad (undiluted it would be 15%). I think what I'll do is top up with 1.5L of bordailles rouge wine and the rest with water. That should be a good compromise.

I don't want to buy any more carboys; I make mostly kits and only did this recipe to fill the one 3 gallon carboy I have that I used to make a dessert wine kit with.

 

[Yooper]

We just mixed up 15 gallons of this again a few days ago. We had 50 pounds of chokecherries in the freezer!

 

[Powers]

hey yooper, how long do you recommend for bulk aging? i made a blend late last summer with some elderberries and wild grapes added to the chokecherries. since the elders and grapes are more tannic, does this need to push into a 2 year range? i racked today and tasted and it's good, but a bit of a tannic bite in the background. otherwise, lees are gone and it's quite nice looking

 

[Yooper]

hey yooper, how long do you recommend for bulk aging? i made a blend late last summer with some elderberries and wild grapes added to the chokecherries. since the elders and grapes are more tannic, does this need to push into a 2 year range? i racked today and tasted and it's good, but a bit of a tannic bite in the background. otherwise, lees are gone and it's quite nice looking

Yes, I'd say it would be about two years to reduce some of the tannic bite. The good news is that it would age very well, and probably be excellent in 5 years.

 

[Powers]

ahhh, the wine hobby tests my patience. in february, i tasted this and it was almost undrinkable with a robitusin-like bitterness. that's really slipped away and the fruit is coming back, but it's clearly not there yet. i'll just forget about for another 6 months, then maybe oak it a bit and let it roll another year or more....thanks yooper!

 

[Wing Nut]

I am all set to make this wine, I have 50lbs of cherries in the freezer all I have to do now is juice them. I have been searching for the red grape concentrate but I cant seem to find it anywhere localy. I could order it but I am not keen on waiting. Could I use a 5 gal wine kit? I was thinking of using a red like winexpert luna rosa or a pinot. Thoughts?

 

[Yooper]

I am all set to make this wine, I have 50lbs of cherries in the freezer all I have to do now is juice them. I have been searching for the red grape concentrate but I cant seem to find it anywhere localy. I could order it but I am not keen on waiting. Could I use a 5 gal wine kit? I was thinking of using a red like winexpert luna rosa or a pinot. Thoughts?

It's not even close to the same thing! The wine concentrate used to come in small bottles, but now this is all I can find: http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_24_22_343&products_id=2207

The idea you have is a good one, though and I think it would be great. But it seems like a "waste" of a good wine kit to water it down with chokecherries!

 

[Wing Nut]

That is the exact same one we have in town....I thought you ment five of those. Perhaps my us-metric conversions arent good enough. How would you use this in your version?

 

[Powers]

just to supplement my post above, i added elderberries which carry more tannins and are contributing to the slow maturation of my wine. i don't think it would take as long for a pure chokecherry wine to come around.

wing nut, if you really don't want to wait, just buy some welch's grape concentrate and get after it...

 

[Grizz]

hey do you guys know where the cheapest place to get the wine chemicals at? I found them cheap last year but I cant remember at all what site I ordered from.

 

[Yooper]

That is the exact same one we have in town....I thought you ment five of those. Perhaps my us-metric conversions arent good enough. How would you use this in your version?

I used 5 pint bottles in 15 gallons, back when they had pint bottles for sale. These boxes are quite a big bigger, and I haven't used that size to know for sure.

I thought you said you were planning on using a luna rosa kit or a pinot. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[rubijudi]

When do you add the dark grape concentrates? And do you leave the mesh bags in while fermenting?

 

[rubijudi]

What are you doing in the picture? Have those choke cherries alread fermented? I can't figure out what you are doing?

 

[Yooper]

When do you add the dark grape concentrates? And do you leave the mesh bags in while fermenting?

I add the grape concentrate in the beginning, as per the recipe. I leave the mesh bag in for primary fermentation about 5-7 days.

 

[Yooper]

What are you doing in the picture? Have those choke cherries alread fermented? I can't figure out what you are doing?

He's using a strainer to really smash up the berries better before putting them in a mesh bag in the fermenter.

 

[Karey]

Yooper, I had 30lbs chokecherries last year and followed your recipe for 10 gallons. It tastes great! tho very dry. I've only bottled one 5 gallon carboy and am wondering if I should try sweetening the other a bit before bottling. And if so, would I need to stabilize it first, and with what? I've got those liquid chitosan and kieselsol (I've not used yet) and sparkalloid (I have used for SkeeterPee).

Due to a winter drought last winter I didn't get as much chokecherries. But they're in the freezer and will make what I can. This will be a regular wine I make, along with the kits I do.

 

[Powers]

You'll want to use potassium sorbate to stabilize. You can pick it up at your local wine or brew shop. Follow the amount-per-gallon instructions for the addition.

 

[Yooper]

You'll want to use potassium sorbate to stabilize. You can pick it up at your local wine or brew shop. Follow the amount-per-gallon instructions for the addition.

Yep! I'd use 1/2 teaspoon of sorbate per gallon, along with one crushed campden tablet per gallon, dissolved in hot water and then rack the wine into that. Wait a few days, sweeten to taste, and then wait a few days to ensure that fermentation hasn't restarted. Then you can bottle.

I don't normally use finings, as this wine clears quite well and some of my friends are vegetarians. But those clarifiers would work.

 

[Yooper]

We just bottled 16 gallons of this yesterday! It was a rainy day, and I had already washed all of the bottles so I got to it.

I had added some oak chips about a month ago, and they were a different kind this time because the oak was very very faint. I was happy with it, though, as it provided a bit of depth but no overt "oak".

We're done with chokecherries until they ripen again in August!

 

[Yooper]

The chokecherries were a bust for us this year. We had a hot March, so everything bloomed, and then a big frost in late April, so everything (apples, cherries, etc) was killed. This is the first time in many years we aren't making chokecherry wine.