Why the need for carboy?

[jrodincincy]

Ok, I'm still new and I have yet to decide on a kit to purchase. After a lot of reading and thought I've come to a question that I need help with. Why use a carboy? I mean why can't you just use the plastic Food Grade buckets as your primary and secondary? The buckets seem like they would be easier to clean, modify, move, and are safer.

I was originally going to get a kit with two buckets (one for primary, one for bottling) and a glass carboy. Then I got thinking why not just purchase a smaller kit with just the primary plastic bucket and bottle bucket. Then buy a second bottle bucket to use as my secondary? It comes out cheaper this way than almost all the kits I've found with the 2 buckets + Carboy.

The only advantage I can see with the carboy is that it's clear and you can see the contents inside of it. I can see how this is beneficial but is it really that important?

 

[0202]

It is also harder to scratch, and many people comment that the lids
on buckets are a pain in the ass to remove and or make airtight.

The Carboy seems to me to be more sanitary and airtight.

Plus I feel that glass can be more thoroughly cleaned.

Edit - Buckets seem to work just fine though

 

[syd138]

Plastic buckets scratch easily. Once this happens, its contaminated with bacteria and you have to throw the bucket out.

Glass can't really scratch. It is the much safer route.

 

[tconlan25]

I've also heard mentioned around here that the plastic buckets are oxygen permeable because of the lower positive pressure inside being produced by secondary fermentation in comparison to primary.

 

[chemist308]

Plastic buckets scratch easily. Once this happens, its contaminated with bacteria and you have to throw the bucket out.

Glass can't really scratch. It is the much safer route.

The glass carboys that I've seen break quite easily. Mine's already chipped. There are good ones out there, like the ones my work uses, but you'll pay for them...

That said, yes bucket lids are a pain to get off and you have to remember to sanitize the gaskets. So, yes they are a pain. They also sratch. But why in the world can't you just follow up you normal cleaning and sanitation by pouring previously boiled water held at 180 degrees F down the interior sides of the bucket? Also, and I've never tried this, but why can't you just pull a knife across the scratches to gently cut them out, as is suggested by the makers of plastic conicals?

 

[Revvy]

If it's a 5 gallon carboy, you don't REALLY need it, that is if you do like many of us and opt for the no long primary/no secondary options...leaving the beer three to four weeks and letting the yeasts clean up after themselves, negate the need for a 5 gallon carboy..


You could opt for a larger carboy (6 or 6.5 gallon) to use as a primary..it is cool to watch everything happen...but personally I wouldn't get a glass carboy these days to save my life...they're overly expensive now, and made of cheap glass, and I like to keep my blood inside my veins....

After reading this you may agree Broken Carboys - Lustreking Brewing

Many of us who do have carboys to ferment in opt for the 6 gallon Betterbottle, or the 3 gallon for 2.5 gallon batches.

This is a good article as well...No More Glass Beer Fermenters - Lustreking Brewing

All that "oxygen permeability" stuff you hear is mostly conjecture and myth perpetuated by the glass industry...and is out of date...most plastics that we use...buckets and betterbottles are just fine as oxygen barriers...ESPECIALLLY since you beer begins almost immediately wrapped in CO2...so if co2 is pushing out...O2 ain't getting it.

 

[ArcaneXor]

I use Better Bottles for 5-gallon batches, glass jugs for 1-gallon batches, and sometimes my old Mr. Beer keg for Apfelwein.

I prefer Better Bottles because you can see what's going on inside the fermenter without having to open the lid constantly, and they also minimize oxygen exposure.
I do extended primaries, so I need to be able to monitor clarification to determine when the beer is ready for bottling, or whether I need to rack and fine it. Better Bottles allow me to do that by just shining a flashlight through them.

 

[Revvy]

And openning buckets are NOT a pain in the a$$ if you make a trip to the hardware store (or the lhbs) and get one of these paint bucket openers for a couple bucks.

 

[syd138]

I've got 3 glass carboys that I've been brewing with for 5 months now.

I've dropped them a couple times and they never chipped.

The good thing about using just glass carboys is that you can keep rotating and using them as both primaries and secondaries.

But like Revvy said, glass carboys are expensive. I paid about $40 for each (for a 6 gallon)

 

[kcstrom]

Better Bottles also usually cost less to ship than glass. They also weight much less so you risk dropping 5 gallons of much less if you must carry them from your kitchen/garage to the place you want to ferment.

I also don't worry to much about scratches with a better bottle as I never stick a brush or anything else in them to clean. I just let soak with Oxyclean for a day or two and shake the crap out of water inside of them to get them clean.

 

[Revvy]

I've got 3 glass carboys that I've been brewing with for 5 months now.

I've dropped them a couple times and they never chipped.

The good thing about using just glass carboys is that you can keep rotating and using them as both primaries and secondaries.

But like Revvy said, glass carboys are expensive. I paid about $40 for each (for a 6 gallon)

And everytime you bang them up you run the risk of the next time you knock it around (or by some of the posters in the dangers article when you just go an pick it up) you may have it break..I have one glass one..and I've banged it twice, and now I only use it as a last resort....

 

[lmg95]

for me... glass all the way. Being the lab rat that i am i just wouldn't use anything else. Unless they begin making 6-gallon teflon bottles...

 

[flyangler18]

I have carboys, BBs and ale pails. I use them all. My choice is dictated by what is available during my latest brew session.

It is also harder to scratch, and many people comment that the lids
on buckets are a pain in the ass to remove and or make airtight.

They don't need to be airtight; only covered. Remember, bacteria/wild yeast/other spoilage organisms can't crawl. They only fall down. I've started using my pails as open fermenters, laying a sanitized piece of plexiglass over the bucket in lieu of the lid. If you want to use the lid, just don't snap it down.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I don't trust plastic materials. I use glass all the way until I can afford stainless. You will be fine with either, I just feel like I would scratch the plastic and be stuck. Plus there is an old school feel to a huge bubbling glass jug.

 

[BrianTheBrewer]

I personally like carboys better than plastic. I can see what is going on when I use a carboy as when I use a plastic bucket I cant see a thing.

 

[SeamusMac]

Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm brewing in order to reach 2 kinds of end product. A delicious honey wheat (currently working on that...) that I can have with meals, after work or give as gifts and a beer that I can hand out to guests as if it were tap water haha.
I bought a kit with a plastic bucket for use as a primary and a glass carboy to be used as a secondary, and for my first batch I used it as intended. I'm going to continue to use the kit in the prescribed manner every 5 weeks or so to make more honey wheat. The other kind of beer I plan on starting to experiment with (this week) will never know the advantages of bulk aging. I'm still researching but most of what I've read indicates that 3 weeks in the primary and then into the bottles is long enough to allow fermentation to finish and clear slightly but not so long that oxygen will begin to permeate the bucket.

I'm only a n00b myself so I can't say either way that a person using a glass secondary will get better results then one using only a plastic primary, but the general consensus seems to be that bulk aging in the absence of oxygen is a good thing.

 

[Maveric777]

I personaly like to see whats going on inside to be honest. I know some folks who use nothing but buckets and have no issues at all. I got my hands on something similar to Better Bottles (I got a friend that works for a drinking fountain water company) and that is all I use now. I also have two of those six gallon fermenter buckets (got another bottling bucket coming in the mail...lol) and never used them for fermenting.

I did run into one issue with the fermenting buckets. I already broke both lids trying to get them off the bucket. So I just use them for soaking bottles and no rinse solutions.

Long story short they both will work. It's all about personal preference (my vote does go for Better Bottles though...lol)

 

[flyangler18]

I can see what is going on when I use a carboy as when I use a plastic bucket I cant see a thing.

As fascinating as it is to watch the yeastie beastie lava lamp, I'm familiar enough with the action of yeast that I don't pay the FVs any attention until a month after the yeast is pitched.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

I love the Hyalophobia that pops up in these kinds of threads. Are you all going to get rid of your glass pint glasses too?

I'm a glass guy personally, and have dropped one or two in my day. Glass carboy's are still affordable at my LHBS ($20/5 gallon, ~$24 for a 6.5) with no sign of them going up anytime soon. Don't know why I'm a glass guy, it's just what I started with and where I am. Yeah, even after 7 years of doing this I still enjoy looking at the yeast do their thing.

 

[TJ-Bill]

I personally like the buckets, easy to clean they don't break if you drop them, you can stack them to save space. I use a galss carboy also but only because it can with the beginners kit I Bought.

Speaking of tough lids, a few weeks ago I almost had a complete break down when I spent 20 minutes trying to remove the lid from a batch. I then had to take a brake and have a brew. When I came back I looked at the situation and realized I was prying on the bottom lip which actually attached to the bucket not the lid. Ever since then I've found the lids very easy to come off..

 

[telemaster]

After reading this you may agree Broken Carboys - Lustreking Brewing

This is a good article as well...No More Glass Beer Fermenters - Lustreking Brewing

WOW! Thanks for these links. I am definitely still going to use a glass carboy, but am going to be much more careful after hearing these horror stories.

 

[nebben]

for me... glass all the way. Being the lab rat that i am i just wouldn't use anything else. Unless they begin making 6-gallon teflon bottles...

I concur.

One mantra I've learned to follow during beer brewing or wine vinting is to always pay attention, and don't rush ANYTHING. I've destroyed a hydrometer, spilled a bunch, let tubes full of wort spray the cabinets...etc. All were unfortunate learning experiences. That being said, I am serious whenever I'm doing anything with my carboys, empty or not. I suspect after many reuses, the quality of beer made in glass or metal will be greater than if made in highly used plastic containers.

And I don't want my wine tasting like beer. 1/2 the containers required since glass wont absorb any smells or flavors like plastic can.

 

[chemist308]

And openning buckets are NOT a pain in the a$$ if you make a trip to the hardware store (or the lhbs) and get one of these paint bucket openers for a couple bucks.

Thankyou Revvy! That's the one part I've always HATED about buckets. You just made my life a LOT easier

 

[GAbrewer]

I bought a carboy some time ago, mainly to use as a secondary and possibly for use as a primary occasionally. It's a 6.5 gallon. I like it well enough, and I do hope to use it as a primary eventually so that I can see what's going on during fermentation. But I don't think I'll be buying a bunch of them like I originally planned. For one thing, they're too expensive. For another, I'm always having to worry about dropping it especially when full because it is not light. I also worry about it even when cleaning it, because we all know what happens if you put hot water in glass and then cool it too quickly. Also, I have to worry about keeping it in a dark place to protect my beer from the light. I never worry about any of these things with my plastic buckets. And $35 a pop seems a steep price to pay for more things to worry about, even if the carboys take better pictures.

If I must have more photogenic fermenters, I think I'll stick to the Better Bottles. I have one of those as well and it's at least lighter and more shatterproof, even if you still have to keep it out of the light. Heh, remember those prescription glasses that automatically darken when light hits them? Maybe somebody could make a fermenter out of that material.

Oh, and kudos to Revvy for posting that paint bucket opener. I'll definitely have to be getting one of those. Believe it or not, I recently ripped a fingernail opening one of those things and sprayed blood all over the side of the bucket. I don't think any blood made it into the beer, but it still hurt. Guess I'll have to name that one Blood Sweat & Tears Porter or something.

 

[jrodincincy]

Boy did I open up a can of worms!! lol

Turns out it really just boils down to personal preference as I can tell.

Yes, the one advantage of the carboy because you can see through the glass and watch the action.

As for the plastic buckets scratching, how are people scratching them? The only thing going in these buckets would be liquid and some plastic tubing from time to time. Are people cleaning these things with wire brushes or something?

To each their own then on this topic. The buckets appeal to me a little more so I think I'll most likely go that route. I will admit however it would be kinda cool to watch the process for the first time. The money just isn't worth it to me. Now, if I can get a free carboy from someone I know then I might take it just as a freebe.

 

[Hegh]

Yes, it's really just personal preference.

I prefer glass, although I have a better bottle. Glass just seems cleaner to me.

As for the scratches, most people use their buckets for making up a big batch of sanitizing solution and just drop everything into it. Plus, when you can reach into it to clean it, you are more likely to do that and accidentally scratch it.