Why the hell can't I seem to hit my target FG with this IIPA recipe???

[homebrewbeliever]

So this is the second time I've brewed this IIPA recipe, and AGAIN it is finishing at a super high FG (~1.025/1.030). The first time I did not make a yeast starter, nor did I do anything special to oxygenate the wort. The second time around, I made a huge two-stage yeast starter with a stir plate and oxygenated the wort with pure O2 and a 2 micron stone. Still, the gravity was way too high. I am stumped. Please, please help. I cannot figure out what I've done wrong... The wort has been sitting in primary for about 5 weeks (I was hoping that letting it sit on the yeast cake for longer would help with attenuation). Here is the recipe that I used:

19.00 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US

1.00 lbs Munich Malt - 20L

8.00 ozs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L

8.00 ozs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L

1.00 lbs Sugar, Table (Sucrose)



IF ANYONE HAS ANY IDEAS ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON AND HOW TO FIX IT, I WOULD BE INCREDIBLY APPRECIATIVE.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Sorry about the caps lock being on at that last part... I don't know why it did that.

 

[thatjonguy]

Fermentation profile? Temps, length and strain are pieces of this puzzle.

 

[Carlscan26]

Mash profile too...

 

[duboman]

My guess is your your thermometer is off and you are mashing higher than you think you are creating a less fermentable wort

 

[beergolf]

I agree with the others about mash temp. Nothing in the recipe would make me believe that you cannot go much lower than what you are getting.

What was your OG and what yeast did you use?

 

[homebrewbeliever]

I agree with the others about mash temp. Nothing in the recipe would make me believe that you cannot go much lower than what you are getting.

What was your OG and what yeast did you use?

My thermometer is not off, as I checked it with two thermometers (ThermoWorks digital and an analog). I mashed at 153*F. for 1 hour, then did a continuous sparge (just like I always do). My OG was 1.092 and I used WLP 002 (Dry English Ale) for the yeast. I followed fermcalc.com's instructions for making a two-stage yeast starter and pitched the proper rate. This is why I am so confused...

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Fermentation profile? Temps, length and strain are pieces of this puzzle.

I primaried at around 70*F for the last 5 weeks. Granted, there were some heat fluctuations at the beginning there (Oregon summer with no AC), so I think it ranged from 68*F-74*F, but I worked really hard to not let it stay at those temps for very long. After a couple of days, I just submerged the fermenter bucket into a water bath using my boil kettle, which kept the fermentation at a pretty constant 71/72*F.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Mash profile too...

Medium/Light body infusion at 153*F for 1 hour, then performed a continuous sparge from my HLT. Took about a 90 minutes to get all of the wort into the kettle, so I know I didn't do it too quickly or anything... Did a 90 minute boil on the wort. Everything seemed normal...

 

[Rambleon]

WLP002 is the English Ale strain and is much less attenuative than the WLP007 Dry English Ale strain. Your apparent attenuation is in the low 70's, which puts it right in the ball park for 002's performance range. If you mixed these two up I'd be willing to bet that this is your problem.

 

[beergolf]

I am guessing that is the yeast you chose. It is not know for high attenuation and the limit for alcohol tolerance is not real high either.


Stopping where you did is within the expected attenuation for that yeast and it puts you at about 9% ABV whis is the upper limit for that yeast.

Next time use a different yeast.

 

[Weezy]

I'd recommend:
- definitely mash in the 148-150 range to maximize fermentability.
- dose sugar into fermenter after ferm starts. say 1/4 lb, once in the morning & once in the evening, for two days, starting ~12 hours after ferm starts.
- I'd personally use a yeast strain with higher attenuation. I'd recommend the chico strains, or if you were looking for the British esters go with WLP007-Dry English.

I like the recipe! good luck going forward.

 

[thatjonguy]

Thought about pitching a different strain to lighten it?

 

[volks_r_us]

5 weeks in primary, did you gave the bucket a gentle swirl shake (without opening it) after 2-3 week ? This normally help my brews when the fermentation slow down.
Mash Temp and your yeast type could also be it like others said

 

[homebrewbeliever]

WLP002 is the English Ale strain and is much less attenuative than the WLP007 Dry English Ale strain. Your apparent attenuation is in the low 70's, which puts it right in the ball park for 002's performance range. If you mixed these two up I'd be willing to bet that this is your problem.

I apologize, I wrote that incorrectly. It was WLP007, the Dry English Ale. I specifically chose this strain for it's ability to highly attenuate even in high gravity...

 

[homebrewbeliever]

I'd recommend:
- definitely mash in the 148-150 range to maximize fermentability.
- dose sugar into fermenter after ferm starts. say 1/4 lb, once in the morning & once in the evening, for two days, starting ~12 hours after ferm starts.
- I'd personally use a yeast strain with higher attenuation. I'd recommend the chico strains, or if you were looking for the British esters go with WLP007-Dry English.

I like the recipe! good luck going forward.

I did use the WLP007 (sorry, I typed 002). I have brewed many medium bodied beers at 153*F and they have fermented out very well...

 

[homebrewbeliever]

I guess this is why I am so confused: I am not using too much dextrine malt (as far as I know), I have brewed many beers mashed at 153*F and they have attenuated well, and the WLP007 Dry English Ale yeast should easily handle this beer. Especially with a 2-stage HUGE starter. And pure O2 added prior to the yeast being pitched. The fermentation temps seem fine, etc. I am thinking of just racking it into a secondary fermenter today and just letting it sit for another month... what do you all think?

 

[midfielder5]

I have brewed many beers mashed at 153*F and they have attenuated well...

Did your other beers mashed at 152-153* have an OG above 1.090?
With that high an OG, you just need to mash lower, like 148*, to get it to finish lower.
I'd also follow Weezy's other steps. An alternative is to drop the OG to the 80's. But what I would not do is keep repeating the same thing and expect differet results.

IPA's are to be drunk fresh, so having it sit around for 4 more weeks is basically a waste of all your hops. I would keg it and dry hop it a ton. Does it taste too sweet?

good luck!

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Did your other beers mashed at 152-153* have an OG above 1.090?
With that high an OG, you just need to mash lower, like 148*, to get it to finish lower.
I'd also follow Weezy's other steps. An alternative is to drop the OG to the 80's. But what I would not do is keep repeating the same thing and expect differet results.

IPA's are to be drunk fresh, so having it sit around for 4 more weeks is basically a waste of all your hops. I would keg it and dry hop it a ton. Does it taste too sweet?

good luck!

Really? I didn't know that high OG beers had to be mashed lower to finish lower... I figured that it would put off the same amount of fermentable and unfermentable sugars as other beers that were mashed at that temp. I am honestly a little hesitant to just keg it and call it good, because it does taste way too sweet. Its sitting around 1.030... its like a super hoppy barley wine. Not what I wanted...

 

[midfielder5]

Many of the commercial IIPA's I have seen clone recipes for, like Pliny, Heady Topper mash low. So try it and see if it fixes your issue. Otherwise you may make an American barleywine like you have now.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Many of the commercial IIPA's I have seen clone recipes for, like Pliny, Heady Topper mash low. So try it and see if it fixes your issue. Otherwise you will make an American barleywine like you have now.

Okay, will do. So do you think that I should mash at 148*F, or would 150*F suffice? By the way, I was wrong, and I mashed this last batch at 154*F.

 

[midfielder5]

Why the resistance to mashing low? Anyways, read up on it and decide what you'd like. I already said I would mash at 148, as did a few other posters.
cheers.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Why the resistance to mashing low? Anyways, read up on it and decide what you'd like. I already said I would mash at 148, as did a few other posters.
cheers.

LOL, ok, what the hell, I have had two batches that have ended up too sweet, and a too-sweet batch of an IIPA is an expensive mistake... I'll go ahead and mash at 148*F. I am not resistant, I've just never mashed anything that low before. Still, HBT community has not really sent me astray yet, so I will just go ahead and stop being hesitant and do it. Thank you very much for your help. Cheers.

 

[midfielder5]

Sorry if it seemed harsh I should have put a smiley face after my first sentence, but you took it the way I meant.
If it creeps up to 150 from 148-- I am sure it will be fine. It is way the hell better than your now revised comment of mashing at 154* which can quickly creep up to 156-158* (ack! I only mash a Mild that high!)

regards, Wendy

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Also, remember that when you mash low, mashing longer will help to make an attenuative wort. Shoot for a 90-120 mash, at least...

 

[Weezy]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the results from mashing lower! Even if you're cooler mashing and it starts ~148 and drifts down to 145, it'll work out great.

And, as always, be real careful of temp fluctuations during fermentation. Even just a degree or two jump (of the actual wort not the air) over a few hours, I've had beers finish 3-4 points higher than normal. If temps drop a little at night, throw a sheet or thin towel over it for the night.

 

[homebrewbeliever]

Thanks, and will do. I've been using iBrewMaster for my brew calculator, and it is suggesting to mash for 75 minutes. Do you all think a 90-120 minute mash would really make make a substantial difference over 75? I suppose it would just allow me to be super sure that a complete conversion occurs...

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, and will do. I've been using iBrewMaster for my brew calculator, and it is suggesting to mash for 75 minutes. Do you all think a 90-120 minute mash would really make make a substantial difference over 75? I suppose it would just allow me to be super sure that a complete conversion occurs...

No, I see no advantage to something like a 120 minute mash. A 90 minute mash is a good idea for a cooler mash temperature (under 150) to ensure that you have complete conversion, but it's probably not necessary. It won't hurt to go 90 minutes if you're mashing at 148, though!

 

[homebrewbeliever]

No, I see no advantage to something like a 120 minute mash. A 90 minute mash is a good idea for a cooler mash temperature (under 150) to ensure that you have complete conversion, but it's probably not necessary. It won't hurt to go 90 minutes if you're mashing at 148, though!

When Yooper speaks, I listen. You have never done anything but give me impeccable advice... you're like the female Dali Lama of home brewing =) I will do a 90 minute mash since I'll be mashing at 148*F.

Yooper, one unrelated question, but since you're probably going to see this reply and since I know you make wines: I am about to blend a sweet wine with a dry wine that I dried out with EC-1118. The wine has cleared and all looks well, and I am wondering if you think I should add Kmeta and Ksorbate to stabilize the dry wine before blending it with the sweet. I am going to keg it because I want it sparkling, but I don't want the fermentation starting up again in the keg (I don't know if this would even happen, but I know that EC-1118 is a beast of a yeast). Even so, I would love to avoid using the Kmeta and Ksorbate if I can get away with it. What do you think? Would it hurt to just go ahead and blend the wines in the keg and then put under pressure without adding the stabilizers?

 

[Rambleon]

Another thing to consider trying next time is adding your simple sugars later in the fermentation. Brew and pitch as you have been but once you see fermentation slowing add your sugars into the carboy (dissolve in a small amount of water). This will allow the yeast to eat up the less fermentable long-chain sugars first and then have the simple sugars for desert. Theres always room for desert.