Why no higher end picnic taps?

[day_trippr]

It would be interesting to know the sales split between the ABS and SS version Pluto Guns...

Cheers!

 

[TheBluePhantom]

I think your argument is out of place. Yes, picnic taps work, but a stainless perlick faucet works better and is more sanitary. I use the more expensive item because it has more value. The question still remains, would anyone pay the same price for a stainless picnic tap as a stainless faucet? If there is demand for this maybe I will find someone to manufacture them so I can sell them, I just don't believe its possible to sell at the price point they would most likely be.

you might want to read the whole thread. The question was is there a better version. (didn't mention stainless, just better) The Pluto was given as an example that there is one. So someone is already trying, and several people have bought them. Not only the pluto guns, but the stainless version. Granted, this thread is but a tiny, statistically insignificant sample, but there is a demand.

 

[bracconiere]

well to all, this thread has taught me. to be cool i don't need to drill big holes in my fridge door, blow $200 on faucets. all i need is a $15 SS picnic tap that doesn't exist, a guy can dream! maybe i should buy a can of silver spray paint for the time being? (the feel wouldn't be the same though!)

 

[Mtrhdltd]

you might want to read the whole thread. The question was is there a better version. (didn't mention stainless, just better) The Pluto was given as an example that there is one. So someone is already trying, and several people have bought them. Not only the pluto guns, but the stainless version. Granted, this thread is but a tiny, statistically insignificant sample, but there is a demand.

I have followed this thread from the beginning. At first I refused to believe the apparent market share of picnic taps. It has evolved to curiosity regarding feasibility of manufacturing and marketing a new product. I will agree the OP didn't say stainless, but a lot of responses do, yourself included. I have seen the pluto gun dismissed as not fitting the need in this thread as well. I can almost certainly say a stainless picnic style would be more machine work than the pluto gun, meaning higher cost. So my unanswered question is would anyone pay $65 for a stainless picnic tap? I believe no based on the many comments preferring them because they are cheap. Not trying to be argumentative, asking a question from curiosity.

 

[bracconiere]

At first I refused to believe the apparent market share of picnic taps.

i love my picnic taps, i've used for 16 years! ************, picnic taps are great!

edit: i gotta say living in the good place is GREAT!

$65 for a stainless picnic tap?

if my plastic one cost $4.99, i'm thinking a SS would be like $15? and hell yeah i'd buy a couple!

 

[Mtrhdltd]

if my plastic one cost $4.99, i'm thinking a SS would be like $15? and hell yeah i'd buy a couple!

I very well could be wrong in pricing. If your right at $15 I do wonder why nobody makes one. It would probably take a really big order to make them cheap. Just thinking... Wonder how to find out... too bad I don't know anyone in China... sorry I guess I'm hijacking.

 

[bracconiere]

sorry I guess I'm hijacking.

i thought that was getting back on topic? i just figure if a formed plastic one costs $4.99...forming and making one with SS would be about 15?

 

[jseyfert3]

i thought that was getting back on topic? i just figure if a formed plastic one costs $4.99...forming and making one with SS would be about 15?

That's not how that works. Plastic is injection molded for stuff like this, they melt plastic, shove it into a mold, in like 15-30 seconds it cools enough the mold opens and the part pops out. The mold usually makes multiple parts at the same time. Very fast, very cheap.

Metal can be casted, but this is a longer process as the molds are sand which are one time use, metal must be melted and then allowed to cool, and the surface of cast metal is rough so you need to smooth that up and then machine the part. There's tricks that can be used, typically a lathe can make round parts fairly easily from extruded metal rod or tubing. Take the pluto gun in stainless, it's some welded tubes and misc small parts. Stainless ball lock connectors are perfectly round (meaning lathe work), with a connector screwed in the side. That's simpler than a picnic style tap and still is $15 and up from what I've seen.

You can skip the casting but if it's not round so it can be done on a lathe from metal tube then you need to machine it, another complicated process with expensive machines compared to injection molding.

I suspect you could make a cheap stainless picnic style tap for $20, but it would feel cheap at that price point and you'd need a massive order to get the price that low. I still doubt there's enough demand to get that.

Note I'm not a manufacturing engineer so I'm just guessing on prices from what little I pick up on machining at my work and some extrapolation based on stainless ball lock connectors.

 

[bracconiere]

cheap stainless picnic style tap for $20,

that'd be pushing it for me, what about alluminum? i see cheap aluminum crap more fancy then a picnic tap all the time?

 

[jseyfert3]

that'd be pushing it for me, what about alluminum? i see cheap aluminum crap more fancy then a picnic tap all the time?

Aluminum is very soft, it is very easy (so much faster) to machine and you don't wear out tooling nearly as fast as machining. Depending on the shape it can also be extruded or molded to some extent. So yes anything from aluminum will be much faster and easier to make, so it will be much cheaper (plus raw aluminum is cheaper too).

Look up on YouTube how aluminum scuba tanks are made. Then look up how steel scuba tanks are made. The difference in amount of work needed will help explain why aluminum stuff is so much cheaper.

Edit, here you go. Both videos are 5 minutes.

Aluminum:

Steel:

 

[bracconiere]

So yes anything from aluminum will be much faster and easier to make,

so like a cheap aluminium tap, that feels sturdy, but with chrome plating so it's smooth?

 

[jseyfert3]

so like a cheap aluminium tap, that feels sturdy, but with chrome plating so it's smooth?

Perhaps. Chome adds another process though (and cost), and won't make it smooth. It has to be smooth before chome plating.

 

[bracconiere]

lol, what about brass or copper?

 

[jddevinn]

you might want to read the whole thread. The question was is there a better version. (didn't mention stainless, just better) T

If it's not a different material then how would you like it to be better? The design for what they cost is pretty damn good. I went and pulled one out of the parts pile and don't see anyway to make it 'better' other then giving it a male flare end so that it can connect to better/newer tubing more easily.

 

[day_trippr]

aluminum, brass and copper...none of those should be used to dispense acidic beer.
Not even wild about chrome over nickle over brass as that always fails and the chrome ends up in your beer glass...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

you know people, all i can say is this thread has got me irritatded. i have to settle for crappy cheap picnic taps! lol, S.O.B.'s now i want something cool!

 

[bracconiere]

aluminum, brass and copper...none of those should be used to dispense acidic beer.
Not even wild about chrome over nickle over brass as that always fails and the chrome ends up in your beer glass...

Cheers!

but lead would make it sweet!


(good point!)

 

[day_trippr]

you know people, all i can say is this thread has got me irritatded.

I think I read of that condition once. I'm so, SO sorry. Can I have your stuff when you're gone?

Cheers!

 

[BarryBrews]

This whole thread confirms and reinforces my procedure of just throwing my picnic tap and line into the trash and only cleaning and reusing the ball lock disconnect after a couple of kegs of use. Cheap, simple and easy! Funny thing is system is 100% stainless steel, silicone tubing and a nylon brew bag which all costs plenty but the last thing my beer sees before my glass is a cheap plastic picnic tap!

For what its worth and I do not have experience with the pluto guns, but why would you want a bigger or heavier tap that lies inside your beer chest? It doesn't sound convenient.

 

[DarrellQ]

I have to speak in the defense of crappy picnic taps. I like them. They stay cold, and i don't get fruit flies on them (I get the things in the house every few months, ( i swear it is the bananas bringing them in). i don't have the smell of stale beer from spills, the drip pan is in the keezer. When I pull the keg, I just grab the line and both go to the keg washer for cleaning. I don't have to reach over the taps to load kegs. Easy cleaning on the drip pan too, I just pull it out and hose if off in the laundry sink. Opening a chest freezer doesn't dump the cold air as badly as a regular fridge, though I have considered a plastic shield to minimize it further.

Now you can call me cheap, I am. And this is not just a stepping stone for me. Just looking at a $50 per line upgrade, I have a 10 keg keezer, I keep 4 soda lines and 8 beer lines. So about $600, how many here call that insignificant? I actually have some taps, but i don't want to use them, I like the picnics.

Yes they are cheap, i pay $1.70 for them. That is why I don't care if they break. I have broken several, always the handle, it is the weak spot. the tap stays sealed. I did lose a keg of soda once to a bad QD, now i only use CMB QDs. They also have a spot in them that holds stuff, you have to disassemble them for cleaning or you get mold. I am not really fond of the cheap plastic, i would like stainless version. i will consider the pluto gun, again, big investment. But I will not be going to taps anytime soon. But really, how about something in between $45 and $1.70, that is a big gap.... and what I really need is a better fitting, better looking drip pan right now.

and a side note, stainless will not freeze to your hand at refrigerator temperatures. It really is not even that good a conductor. for a metal.


View attachment 705032

This is excellent! I've thought about a smaller 3 keg version of this, but was wondering, do you have to clean an individual line if you haven't had a particular beer for several days or a week. How often do you have to clean the lines and what is the process?

 

[Beermeister32]

How'd you get a FC Perlick to work like that? I tried replacing a rear sealing cheapo tap on a Black QD keg post mounted faucet with one of my "spare" Perlicks and it wouldn't allow the shuttle to move back and forth.

I'll get you a photo to show how to assemble one, stay tuned...

 

[bracconiere]

Can I have your stuff when you're gone?

i think you'd be embarrassed inheriting my posts!

 

[BarryBrews]

but was wondering, do you have to clean an individual line if you haven't had a particular beer for several days or a week. How often do you have to clean the lines and what is the process?

I work on the theory that if the line and tap are all in the cold chest and the beer sitting in the line is also open to the inside of the keg, it's either too late for the whole keg or the beer in the line is just fine! A quick starsan spray into the nozzle opening would be a great idea if you know it's going to sit for awhile. I'm sure you have seen what happens to spilled beer, not in my nozzle please!

Seven feet of beer tubing is about $1 and the picnic taps are about $2. Add these to the easy to clean liquid disconnect and fill with starsan overnight and you're good to go. The effort to clean the line and reassemble the picnic tap without bending the little tabs just isn't worth it. Pitch them!

 

[Chuckbergman]

i love my picnic taps, i've used for 16 years! wonderful human being, picnic taps are great!

edit: i gotta say living in the good place is GREAT!




if my plastic one cost $4.99, i'm thinking a SS would be like $15? and hell yeah i'd buy a couple!

I agree - $15-$20 for a better picnic tap. Doesn't have to be stainless, just something better than the cheapy plastic ones. I have a Keezer that holds 2 5gal corneys and a 3gal on the hump. I use a picnic tap and have no plans to expand beyond that.

 

[bracconiere]

I agree - $15-$20 for a better picnic tap.

here's mine, complete with counter pressure bottle filler! (i now have a HBT sticker between them though )


It would be so cool if they were stainless! i got sick of using BIC lighters for the same reason! bought a thunderbird butane insert for my zippo, so it felt high class!

 

[TheBluePhantom]

This is excellent! I've thought about a smaller 3 keg version of this, but was wondering, do you have to clean an individual line if you haven't had a particular beer for several days or a week. How often do you have to clean the lines and what is the process?

Honestly, I don't clean as often as I should. since they are fully refrigerated I let them go months. For the soda, wines, ciders and meads, this is less of a problem, they are usually treated with potassium metabisulfite. i have occasionally had issues with beer lines getting a growth, it starts in the cap of the picnic tap where there is a crevasse exposed to air. Probably the biggest flaw. I used to just run PBW through the whole line and call it good, now i disassemble the tap completely and soak it, since then no growth. I have let taps run for several months without problems, but still a bad habit. since it is sealed to the tap, the tap should be cleaned way more often. Since the lines are loose, I just grab them and connect them to a disconnect on my kegwasher, 20 to 30 minutes of hot PBW, rinse and reassemble with starsan.

If it's not a different material then how would you like it to be better? The design for what they cost is pretty damn good. I went and pulled one out of the parts pile and don't see anyway to make it 'better' other then giving it a male flare end so that it can connect to better/newer tubing more easily.

The picnic taps are cheap ABS, they break a lot. I usually break the handle, although I did split a spout once using it with a plastic tube to fill bottles (also a thing with picnic taps) Even the new Pluto guns say they are nylon and stainless for the cheap ones, better material than ABS. Stainless is desired, but not necessarily required. I will bet few of us have all stainless QDs.... The pluto guns do seem a bit large, and i like the thumb trigger of the picnics, so maybe something smaller than plutos, with a male flare fitting, stamped stainless for the thumb trigger.... Anyone have a good design for the valve body?

 

[bracconiere]

I will bet few of us have all stainless QDs...

well, i don't feel them 12 times a day! someone said aluminum, copper brass is out, now what about an expensive sterling silver one? that'd be pretty cool! i'd probably even drop the $50 on it!

edit: i did spend $16 on 12" of 99.9% silver wire to weld into a couples rings as a joke to wear! kinda like the hobbit.....

 

[cubalz]

These look pretty good: CMB Flow Control Event or Party Faucet

I have 2 of those and they are amazing. Sure they are a bit expensive but I have perfect control over the pour and no need for long beer lines.

 

[TheBluePhantom]

$50 sterling silver faucet.... What are you going to do with a faucet 3/16" tall?

Wait, duh, that is a charm for a bracelet, isn't it....

 

[Beermeister32]

Here is the picture of 2 Perlick flow controls, one Intertap and one cheapie China faucet.

On the flow controls, the key is to use the cheapie China adapter which allows more clearance for the shuttle return. You do need an external spring for knob return to avoid spills.