Why Does This Taste Like Bubblegum???

[rodwha]

I had 1/2 an oz of Warrior hops left over, and could not find anything about people using it for other than bittering, though I was told it has next to no aroma. MoreBeer states it has a flavor similar to Columbus so I decided to make a test batch of pale ale. This is what I came up with:

2 gal partial mash

1.5 lbs golden light LME (FO)
0.75 lb 2-row
6 oz oats
6 oz soft white wheat berries
5 oz crystal 20
5 oz crystal 40
2 oz carafoam
0.1 oz Warrior (16%) @ 60 mins
0.2 oz Warrior @ 20/5 mins
Nottingham dry yeast

Brewtoad figured:
1.056/1.011
5.9% ABV
35 IBU's
8 SRM

My OG was 1.062 and my FG was 1.010 for closer to 6.8%!

This tastes like I used Belgian yeast with a strong bubblegum flavor. Glad it only produced 17 bottles of beer, but it'll supply SWMBO with something as she doesn't mind, and doesn't think it's "bubblegum", but that's what she says about the other Belgian beers.

 

[kaconga]

Bubblegum typically manifests from high ferm temps. Did you use temp control on this batch?

 

[masonacoats]

agreed with kaconga. I just used Notty and the temps got a little high so it threw a good bit of esters (Notty is supposed to be clean) although mine didn't exactly get bubblegum flavors. Maybe it's a combo of esters and the wheat you used.

 

[rodwha]

This was fermented in the low 60's.

 

[kaconga]

Did a bit of research and the only thing I have found on bubblegum flavor and aroma is too high of fermentation temps. So I am stumped.

 

[Qhrumphf]

How did you aerate, and what was your pitching rate, and your pitching temp? Underpitching, under aerating, and pitching too hot could all lead to increased esters, including bubblegum. I doubt you underpitched with dry yeast and a 2 gallon batch, but the other two could definitely cause it.

Did you do anything to check your conversion after that partial mash? Without doing any calculations of degrees Lintner or anything like that, I'm wondering if that 2 row had enough enzymatic power to convert the rest. And then unconverted starch provides a ready food source for wild yeast, which might get you bubblegum. Not saying that's what I think happened. Just maybe it's also a possibility.

If nothing else, let it age a big, and the bubblegum may fade.

 

[rodwha]

I aerate with a whisk.

I used half a packet of dry yeast.

Pitching temp was mid-high 60's.

I'm still not too keen on all of the mashing jargon. What I do is BIAB. I bring it to ~165* drop grains, stir well, add thermometers (one in center near bottom, and one on side about midway down), wrap with old blanket and check every 20-30 mins. My notes tell me that after about 40 mins I found my temp in the low 140's. I heated the pot and stirred. I assume this is why I got a little higher gravity. I added a little time to my mash. When nearly done I microwave water to about 130-160* and pull the bag and place it in my colander and pour my sparge water and use the base of the cup to squeeze a bit.

My fermentation temps were low to mid 60's.

i don't do any sort of protein rest or any of the many other things I've read about concerning mashes.

Qhrumphf: I see you live near my step father. Nice town, though I didn't care for the traffic getting there! And $12 for 1/2 a mile on a toll road because we didn't have the pass!

 

[Qhrumphf]

I aerate with a whisk.

I used half a packet of dry yeast.

Pitching temp was mid-high 60's.

I'm still not too keen on all of the mashing jargon. What I do is BIAB. I bring it to ~165* drop grains, stir well, add thermometers (one in center near bottom, and one on side about midway down), wrap with old blanket and check every 20-30 mins. My notes tell me that after about 40 mins I found my temp in the low 140's. I heated the pot and stirred. I assume this is why I got a little higher gravity. I added a little time to my mash. When nearly done I microwave water to about 130-160* and pull the bag and place it in my colander and pour my sparge water and use the base of the cup to squeeze a bit.

My fermentation temps were low to mid 60's.

i don't do any sort of protein rest or any of the many other things I've read about concerning mashes.

Qhrumphf: I see you live near my step father. Nice town, though I didn't care for the traffic getting there! And $12 for 1/2 a mile on a toll road because we didn't have the pass!

Did you rehydrate or pitch dry? If rehydrated, 1/2 pack should have been plenty. If you just pitched dry you probably underpitched so that could indeed have been the problem. Seems like the rest of it should be fine.

As far as mashing, you can test conversion, making sure all the starches have been converted into sugar. Simple but not reliable tests are simply observing the mash after it's had time to settle, if there's a clearish wort on top, instead of a very turbid one. Or you can simply taste it, and see if it tastes sweet. A more surefire test is to remove a small sample of the liquid mash (no grain matter), and add a few drops of iodine. If you see a color change to dark purplish black, it means you've still got starch present. And then discard that sample regardless.

I do an iodine test every once in a while, and especially after complicated mashes (multiple decoction mashes, etc). I've never had a problem with conversion, and with single infusion mashes I usually don't bother, but it's definitely a cheap and easy test.

My concern (probably ok, just a concern) is that you've got 33% base malt, 33% unmalted adjunct, and 33% crystal malts. While the crystal malts don't need conversion, that's possibly spreading the conversion power of the base malt (enzymatic power measured in degrees Lintner) very low, and preventing it from having enough oomph to fully convert the oats and wheat berries. In the future, with partial mashes, I'd try to target about 50% base malt to 50% everything else, and when using adjunct grains like oats or unmalted grains (unmalted wheat, unmalted barley, etc), either increase the percentage higher than that, or go with something like 6 row malt with a very high conversion power.

The primary concern here is that brewing yeast will not eat starch, but some wild yeast and many bacteria will, and if you leave unconverted starch you're basically providing fertile ground for bad guys to feast on, in addition to permanent hazes and the like.

Again, I don't necessarily suspect that's what happened, especially if you didn't notice anything like a pellicle or anything other than a bubblegum character (no over attenuation, no gushers, no sourness, no funk, no bandaid or any other common wild yeast phenols, etc). Some internet searching says that Nottingham can indeed produce bubblegum if it gets too stressed (I saw a combo of dry pitching and warm ferment on a few other HBT threads), so my guess is some other breakdown in fermentation mangement.

Question: Is your low to mid 60s fermentation temp the room, or the beer? If it was the room, then with the heat created by fermentation you could be fermenting in the 70s, which high enough for Notty to create bubblegum.

 

[passedpawn]

Sorry, I don't have any answers for you. But last year I made a whole series of pilsners which were fermented at 50F. One of them ended up with some pretty strong bubblegum flavor. No idea why. That batch used W34/70 dry yeast, rehdrate normally, etc, d-rest, all the normal lager processes.

I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes you get a knuckle ball. I'd say if it doesn't continue happening, don't worry too much, especially if your wife likes it.

 

[rodwha]

I rehydrated it.

It's measured beer temp. I used to keep tabs on the water thinking the thermal mass would keep them even, but found it was about 5* warmer than the chilled water.

My yeast was old, near the exp date. That's why I used 1/2 instead of a little less thinking a little extra couldn't hurt. Maybe it was stressed...