Probably the latest? 3.0.2? I had some original 3.0.0 version I must have downloaded long ago but never used.
Why does my tripel have poor head retention?
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Probably the latest? 3.0.2? I had some original 3.0.0 version I must have downloaded long ago but never used.
Belgian beers typically use noble hops. Many people don't like the flavor combination of sulfate and noble hops. Also, many people seem to think one needs sulfate in a beer to get a particular sulfate:chloride ratio. Depending on the style you could create a good beer without chloride or without sulfate.
I understood that it changes with temp but I thought that was what the conversion factor was and valid in the range of mash pH... Hungh. Now I'm confused, LOL! Do you have a link/reference to point me to? I am curious but also lazy.
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Just tried it on ver3.0 and I get a touch higher than what you are getting.
Did you include your mash-out addition as part of the sparge water (it should be)?
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And one last thing. On very light beers like yours, you are pretty hard pressed to bring the pH down any more than you are without really adding a lot of minerals or upping the acidulated malt a bit more (you could go to the prescribed 3% of grist value - 6 oz in your case - to hit the middle of the pH range). This is why some use lactic or phosphoric acid en lieu of or in addition to the acidulated malt.
This thread explained the temperature correction stuff pretty well: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/buying-guide-ph-meter-127062/
As far as including the mash-out water in the mash water, I'd say I disagree--at least in terms of the pH calculation. The water can be included in the sparge water.
As far as using acid in addition to acid malt, that isn't typical. The reason for only using 3% acid malt is to avoid lactic flavors in the beer. Additional lactic would defeat the purpose. I suppose phosphoric acid could be used in that case, but you're better off flavor-wise reducing alkalinity and limiting acid in the case where 3% acid malt isn't enough.
This. Noble hops and sulfate don't play well together, as they get harshly bitter and I dislike it.
For my Belgians, I tend to do a step mash (again, a higher temperature protein rest, albeit a short one), use noble hops, and do not increase the sulfate. Acidulated malt, lactic acid, or phosphoric acid can be used to lower the pH.
Those spreadsheets are great for helping to figure your potential pH, but not a guarantee. As an example, today I used two different spreadsheets. One by Kai Troester and one by EZ. I like them both as they show the water profile after I dilute with my RO water. EZ water gave me 5.5 for the mash pH, while Kai's gave me 5.29. The actual mash pH was 5.4. Right down the middle!
If you like the flavor imparted by sulfate, by all means add it. But there is more to it than pH adjustment, and the CaS04 does not change (lower) the pH all that much. There are flavor components as well. For pH adjustment, diluting with reverse osmosis water, using lactic acid, phosphoric acid, or acid malt may all be better choices than adding some salts.
Cl:S04 ratio is really meaningless, and is left off of some spreadsheets.
Just like with cooking, adding salt may or may not be what is needed. The same is true with brewing.
If you can taste 6oz of acidulated malt in a 13lb grain bill you must be very sensitive to the flavor. I did 8 oz in 7lb grain bill and didn't notice the acid malt. I can certainly taste it in my beer with 25% acid malt but even that high it's not dramatic to me.
Who said they could taste 6 ounces in a 13lb grain bill?
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Judochop said he could taste 6oz in his last golden strong in post #28.
Huh, I'd almost have to wonder if Judochop had a lacto infection.
Thanks. Will have a read.
Yes. So you agree with me (re-read my post).
Along w all the good key notes from other users ive also read that it could be the residue that is left on your beer glasses from dish soap. Dish soap to some level contains fat and rinsing alone doesnt get it off all too often. Not all dish soaps however have fat. One solution is to scrub your glasses w salt on the inside very well and then rinse. I read this from "how to brew" (palmer).
Judochop
Well-Known Member
No need to get personal.
I believe it was the acid malt I was tasting.
I've brewed a Kolsch, which consisted of nothing but Pils and a pinch of wheat, and I tasted nothing but gentle graininess. With my Golden Strong however, which was all Pils and Sugar (with 6 oz acid malt), there was definitely a sour twang. It wasn't prominently evident when tasted in isolation, but when I tried it side by side with a commercial belgian beer, it became obvious.
So, I loosely concluded it was the acid malt I was tasting. But I don't know.
I've made one or two bad beers in my life, but the Golden Strong wasn't the same kind of beast. It was still very drinkable. If it was a lacto infection, it was the one and only time. I'm doubtful about it.
Judochop
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input Yoops. Good stuff as always. (Excellent point about salts and cooking.)
Nonetheless, I went ahead and added 6 oz gypsum and 8 oz CaCl to my mash water. It's converting as I type. Went with 2 oz acid malt. I guess we'll just see what we see. Incidentally, I'm using Ahtanum as my bittering hop, for a little hint o'american, so maybe they and the sulfate will play nicely together. I do plan to late hop with Saaz. We'll just see...
tom9d
Well-Known Member
Bumping this thread...
I brewed a batch of Northern English Brown Ale, and it turned out great, except for the poor head retention. Just checked my local water report and it lists a PH range between 6.91-7.77.
I didn't use any sugar adjuncts; can't thing of anything else that could have found its way into the brew other than grain, hops, water and yeast; and I've never cleaned the glassware I've used for these with anything but hot water. Is it likely that the PH is preventing good head retention?
I brewed a batch of Northern English Brown Ale, and it turned out great, except for the poor head retention. Just checked my local water report and it lists a PH range between 6.91-7.77.
I didn't use any sugar adjuncts; can't thing of anything else that could have found its way into the brew other than grain, hops, water and yeast; and I've never cleaned the glassware I've used for these with anything but hot water. Is it likely that the PH is preventing good head retention?
I don't know how or if pH affects head retention, but I do know it's not the water pH that matters in brewing, it's the pH of the solution throughout the process, which will be low 6's or lower for basically any common level of alkalinity. Ideally your mash pH will be at about 5.3-5.5 at room temp. The boil pH is normally supposed to be around 5.1-5.2 (again at room temperature). The pH of the finish beer should be 4-4.5.
pH certainly affects beer foam and retention. Proteins have specific ranges of activity and if the pH is to high or too low they don't keep their structure. So for a beer to have a nice billowly head it's due to the proper pH allowing the proteins stability. It's not a lack of protein in the beer so bumping the recipe up with torrified wheat or something like that isn't the answer.
