Why does homebrew take so long?

[Beerthoven]

A few weeks ago I went with some fellow HBTers on a tour of the Carolina Brewing Company in Holly Springs, NC.

They brew a fantastic Winter Porter there. It's ready to drink and delicious in 4 weeks.

I brewed a porter on Aug. 18 and it still needs time to improve.

So my question is, how come homebrew takes so long? Or put another way, how do some craft brewers get good beer so fast?

Do they boil hotter, aerate more, pitch huge yeast counts? Is it better cooling, fermentation, filtration? What is it?

Any ideas?

 

[Cheesefood]

A few weeks ago I went with some fellow HBTers on a tour of the Carolina Brewing Company in Holly Springs, NC.

They brew a fantastic Winter Porter there. It's ready to drink and delicious in 4 weeks.

I brewed a porter on Aug. 18 and it still needs time to improve.

So my question is, how come homebrew takes so long? Or put another way, how do some craft brewers get good beer so fast?

Do they boil hotter, aerate more, pitch huge yeast counts? Is it better cooling, fermentation, filtration? What is it?

Any ideas?

The average homebrewer adds 2-3 weeks for clearing. If you have filtering available, you can subtract this additional time.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

A few weeks ago I went with some fellow HBTers on a tour of the Carolina Brewing Company in Holly Springs, NC.

They brew a fantastic Winter Porter there. It's ready to drink and delicious in 4 weeks.

I brewed a porter on Aug. 18 and it still needs time to improve.

So my question is, how come homebrew takes so long? Or put another way, how do some craft brewers get good beer so fast?

Do they boil hotter, aerate more, pitch huge yeast counts? Is it better cooling, fermentation, filtration? What is it?

Any ideas?

It takes so long because it's worth it.

Craft breweries are bound by the same restrictions that we are with the exception of one - capital. Even with all that shiny equipment, it still takes just as long to do 100bbl as it does to do 5 gallons.

Most, if not all, force carb so that will speed things up a bit, but other than that they need to take very similar steps that we do - just on a much larger scale.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

The average homebrewer adds 2-3 weeks for clearing. If you have filtering available, you can subtract this additional time.

Ahhhhhhhhh ya... forgot about filtering. Guess that would speed things up considerably.

 

[Cheesefood]

Most, if not all, force carb so that will speed things up a bit, but other than that they need to take very similar steps that we do - just on a much larger scale.

I force carb and it still takes about 2-3 weeks for the CO2 to "take". I can get a big frothy head within a week, but it disappears quickly. 2-3 weeks before I see bubbles on the bottom of the glass.

 

[rdwj]

I force carb and it still takes about 2-3 weeks for the CO2 to "take". I can get a big frothy head within a week, but it disappears quickly. 2-3 weeks before I see bubbles on the bottom of the glass.

That's because you keep it fairly warm. Mine is usually fully carbed in a week

 

[Beerthoven]

I think commercial brewers get good beer fast because they max-out every step of the process.

Highly efficient mash
Hot boil
Super fast cooling
Lots of aeration
High pitching rates
Tightly controlled fermentation temp
Crash cooling
Filtering
Force carbonation

As homebrewers, most of us are pretty slack in one or more of these areas, and that comes through in the beer.

 

[Orfy]

You can have beer to drink in 2-4 weeks easy.
I've done mild in 12 days.

 

[Philip1993]

I force carb and it still takes about 2-3 weeks for the CO2 to "take". I can get a big frothy head within a week, but it disappears quickly. 2-3 weeks before I see bubbles on the bottom of the glass.

Ditto.

That's because you keep it fairly warm. Mine is usually fully carbed in a week

Not mine. And I carb at serving temperature. Perhaps it's the 'degree' of forcefulness. I carb just a little above serving pressure and very rarely is that at, or above, 15psi. I also never shake the beer to dissolve the CO2 more quickly. Perhaps it's mental, but IMHO the carbonation is much finer and lacier with a slow, steady carb.

 

[srm775]

I think commercial brewers get good beer fast because they max-out every step of the process.

Highly efficient mash
Hot boil
Super fast cooling
Lots of aeration
High pitching rates
Tightly controlled fermentation temp
Crash cooling
Filtering
Force carbonation

As homebrewers, most of us are pretty slack in one or more of these areas, and that comes through in the beer.

Hot boil? Last time I checked water (wort) boils at the same temperature (212 F)for me as it does for craft brewers and large commercial breweries.

I don't know about you, but as I sit here and gulp down my Pacific Pale Ale (Sierra Nevada-ish) I'd put it up against any craft or large scale brewery. Besides, I do everything on that list except for filtering but that's what crash cooling is.

Also, my Pacific Pale Ale I'm drinking right now was fully carbed and ready to serve 12 hours after carbing it. This is the first time I've carbed by vigorously shaking it and it turned out great.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Hot boil? Last time I checked water (wort) boils at the same temperature (212 F)for me as it does for craft brewers and large commercial breweries.

Yup water boils at 212. Any older and it doesn't boil, any warmer and it becomes steam.

 

[DUCCCC]

Yup water boils at 212. Any older and it doesn't boil, any warmer and it becomes steam.

Only young water boils at 212º?

Although the numbers quoted are for sea level. The boiling temp drops with a raise in elevation above MSL.

If you want hotter boils temps you need to move to Death Valley, salt the water, or raise the pressure.

 

[Chad]

Hot boil? Last time I checked water (wort) boils at the same temperature (212 F)for me as it does for craft brewers and large commercial breweries.

Yes, water boils at the same temperature, but Beerthoven has a good point (several of them actually). If a boil were a boil were a boil people wouldn't go for 150,000 btu burners. The 55k jobbies would be just fine. The fact is that more heat means hitting a boil faster and it means a faster boil overall. A big roiling boil drives off excess moisture at a higher rate than a slower, albeit still 212, boil. My kitchen stove is a great example. I can boil 7 gallons at a measured 212 degrees but it is a pretty lazy boil. I just don't have the BTUs to really drive it hard. It takes at least 90 minutes to get 7 gallons down to the 5.5 or 5.75 that goes into the fermenter. Crank up a banjo burner or a steam jacketed commercial kettle and the amount of time required drops precipitously.

I was on the same tour and was amazed at the cooling capacity of the big boys' toys. A "batch" is 600 gallons (give or take) and they'll run 3 or 4 batches into a fermenter, cooling it to 67 degrees in an astonishingly short amount of time before pitching 90 gallons of yeast slurry.

I think the two major differences between a commercial brewery and homebrewing -- at least in terms of time -- are filtration and carbonation. A good filtration system takes the place of weeks in a bright tank, and forced carbonation replaces weeks of bottle conditioning. Carolina Brewing Company (like other small or regional craft brewers) gets a high quality beer into bottles much faster than I can. They have a greater commercial incentive than I do. They have a lot more overhead. And because their beer isn't pasteurized or otherwise made more shelf-stable, the clock starts ticking as soon as it leaves the fermenter. Any improvements from aging are offset by steadily decreasing ROI as the beer sits on the shelf. They, like others, have to find a good equilibrium point. Other breweries -- most notably the big national companies -- compromise a lot on quality to ensure shelf stability, thus reducing risk.

Chad

 

[Beerrific]

Hot boil? Last time I checked water (wort) boils at the same temperature (212 F)for me as it does for craft brewers and large commercial breweries.

That is true only at atmospheric pressure. Put the kettle under a vacuum and you can boil much cooler. Umm...this has nothing to do with beer since it is the heat that is wanted anyway.

 

[srm775]

Yes, water boils at the same temperature, but Beerthoven has a good point (several of them actually). If a boil were a boil were a boil people wouldn't go for 150,000 btu burners. The 55k jobbies would be just fine. The fact is that more heat means hitting a boil faster and it means a faster boil overall. A big roiling boil drives off excess moisture at a higher rate than a slower, albeit still 212, boil.

Ummm ... did it occur to you that maybe most people don't really want to wait around for 1.5-2.5 hours for a boil to start, and that's why they get higher burners. In fact, I bet if you poll most AG brewers, they'd say they turn down their burners extremely low once it gets going.

My kitchen stove is a great example. I can boil 7 gallons at a measured 212 degrees but it is a pretty lazy boil. I just don't have the BTUs to really drive it hard. It takes at least 90 minutes to get 7 gallons down to the 5.5 or 5.75 that goes into the fermenter. Crank up a banjo burner or a steam jacketed commercial kettle and the amount of time required drops precipitously.

Again, I have 180,000 turkey fryer and I rarely turn it above 25,000 BTU

the same tour and was amazed at the cooling capacity of the big boys' toys. A "batch" is 600 gallons (give or take) and they'll run 3 or 4 batches into a fermenter, cooling it to 67 degrees in an astonishingly short amount of time before pitching 90 gallons of yeast slurry.

Umm ... remember its not the size of the boat but the motion in the ocean. Homebrewers do the same thing ... ummm on a smaller scale!

I think the two major differences between a commercial brewery and homebrewing -- at least in terms of time -- are filtration and carbonation. A good filtration system takes the place of weeks in a bright tank, and forced carbonation replaces weeks of bottle conditioning.

Read post above

 

[Jester369]

Umm ... remember its not the size of the boat but the motion in the ocean.

Heh heh - if you said that to my GF, she'd say "Yeah, but you can't get to England in a rowboat!"

 

[david_42]

Another technique not mentioned yet, flowing beer through a yeast column to rapidly remove fermentation byproducts. Seconds vs. weeks.

[Jester369 - Google - rowing crossing Atlantic. Dozens of people have done it.]

 

[Beerrific]

Another technique not mentioned yet, flowing beer through a yeast column to rapidly remove fermentation byproducts. Seconds vs. weeks.

And beechwood aging....

 

[teu1003]

Ummm ... In fact, I bet if you poll most AG brewers, they'd say they turn down their burners extremely low once it gets going.

/QUOTE]

not this brewer ... although I DO turn the burner back, I keep it high enough to maintain a VERY vigorous boil ... i'm not sure wort is supposed to be "simmered" ... its supposed to be BOILED.

fwiw, i brewed yesterday in my 45 degree garage and needed to boil NINE (9) gallons of wort (90 minute boil) to get 5.5 into the fermenter.

 

[Jester369]

[Jester369 - Google - rowing crossing Atlantic. Dozens of people have done it.]

Jeez David, it was a joke fer cryin' out loud!

 

[Chad]

Heh heh - if you said that to my GF, she'd say "Yeah, but you can't get to England in a rowboat!"

To which the proper reply is, "Who knew the channel would be so wide?"



Chad

 

[Philip1993]

Jester369 - Google - rowing crossing Atlantic. Dozens of people have done it.

Someone hit a nerve!

 

[Buford]

Doesn't conditioning in a larger container speed up the process due to the volume of beer still in contact with a goodly amount of yeast? Kegs seem to take less time to get good than bottles, and breweries have huge tanks.

 

[mrfocus]

I do believe the biggest advantage they have is the pitching rate. I remember reading on maltosefalcons.com or something that the pitching rate of commercial breweries was ten-fold the amount homebrewers use per milliliter.

 

[the_bird]

[Jester369 - Google - rowing crossing Atlantic. Dozens of people have done it.]

I bet it takes a long time. Red might like it!

 

[BierMuncher]

Huge yeast pitches (the one on the left is typical of what I pitch).



Moving to a secondary 48 hours after termainal gravity reached.

Adding gelatin to secondary and crash cooling...

I can get a light bodied beer (1.035-1.045) from grain to class in 20 days.