Why does AG sound so...

[drathbone]

scary on paper? I keep reading about it and it just sounds so intimidating. Then, I brewed an AG with a couple of friends and I'm like "Wait, THAT'S IT?!" Other than the jump in equipment AG seems pretty straightforward. Why is that?

 

[bob1852]

The same thing happened with me. I read Joy Of, and How to Brew, and then finally read Bobby_M's all grain primer and said - I can do this!

I remember that first time, I finished sparging and was getting ready to boil, and thought "I just made LME from scratch without concentrating it!"

 

[iaefebs]

AG is pretty straight forward. I don't have a clue as to why it sounds "scary"

 

[ThePearsonFam]

Best advice for brewers that aren't sure is to go to a lhbs or club to experience it 1st hand. It's so simple (once you see it) that you'll certainly say, "that's it?"

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

I think it sounds scary because so many people want to make it scary. I just don't get it. I only made a couple extract batches before switching to all grain, it never seemed intimidating to me at all. But that was 21 years ago, and there was nowhere near this kind of support. So, you just read the book and started brewing.

I think that part of the problem with forums like this, is that you get a lot of well intentioned new brewers trying to help new brewers. This causes some misinformation to be continually repeated, and in turn creates some trepidation. And, in my short time on this board, I've seen countless brewers being told they should get much more extract experience before moving to AG. Why? The only real difference is it takes more time and equipment. (you really don't need much more equipment if you do mini batches or BIAB).

Imagine there was no such thing as extract and to make beer you need to do it AG. You'd probably have done it already!

 

[Arkansasrebel]

New to the board and fairly new to brewing. My first attempt at brewing was with a MR. Beer kit 15+ years ago. Made the 3 LME batches in the kit and never brewed again. However 2 months ago, got the itch to try home brewing again. Bought a pot, made a mash tun and HLT out of coolers, scrounged a carboy and jumped in with an AG American Brown Ale. A couple of co-workers that kit and DME brew were overly impressed. Of course I had a couple of stumbles during my first AG brew day, but nothing that I couldn't work around and found it a fairly simple process. I think sometimes we over complicate the process or at least over think it.

 

[RyboFlav]

It's really only as scary as you want to make it.

You can make a tiered-recirculating-automated system and stress about being off a degree...

Or you can get a big pot and a bag and make some delicious beer!

It probably doesn't help that every action a brewer takes has some sort of jargon.

 

[appanooserapids]

The first batches I brewed were all grain (on a Brew Magic), and didn't know people thought it was "scary" until I got on this forum. I have since switched primarily to LME, as I can make 4 times the beer in the same amount of time, with less mess.

I have all grain and extract versions of all of our recipes, and honestly don't find that much difference in the finished product when all of your ingredients are fresh.

 

[rycov]

i think people thinking about getting into it get psyched out because there is so much going on in the mashtun, and several different ways to mash, and step mash, protien rest this and that. then they're like, ew, that sounds complicated. when really all they need to know is get these grains and water to around 150 and keep there for an hour then drain, sparge and proceed as normal.

 

[stageseven]

Keep in mind as well that it does add a certain number of variables that the brewer has to control that they wouldn't have to concern themselves with in an extract batch. Holding a steady mash temp, measuring and adjusting pH, worrying about malt profiles, water profiles, ensuring you have enough diastatic power to convert the batch, sparge amounts/type/temperature, iodine testing... Not that you have to do all these things to do all-grain, but a total noob to brewing coming in wouldn't even necessarily know which aspects are important enough to worry about to start. And that's on top of all the stuff that's common to both all-grain and extract.

There's a wealth of information on here, but some of it can definitely be intimidating when you don't know what any of it means. I think that's why so many people encourage beginners to stay with extract until they get the most basic and most important steps down. Cleaning, sanitation, pitching rates, ferment temps... if those things aren't mastered, they'll just be making bad all-grain beer instead of bad extract beer.

 

[user 21663]

I think most of us go through this. I guess extract is a good way for people to get through the boil and fermentation process down before worrying about AG.

 

[ArcaneXor]

I also encourage people to wait to go all-grain until they can make great extract batches, i.e. until they learn proper yeast management and fermentation temperature control. For many newbies, worrying about hitting mash temps, adjusting mash chemistry and all those things that are second nature for most of us can be a bit overwhelming.

But one of the major reasons for why all grain seems intimidating is the terminology. "Mash" sounds more intimidating than steeping, even though its, procedurally, a very similar process. Likewise with sparging (vs "rinsing"), lautering ("draining"), vorlauf, all the enzyme and rest names, etc. It's like learning another language

 

[stanley1271]

I think AG sounds scary because there is so much science behind the entire process. However, you really don't need to know all that science to actually do AG (or mini-mash) brewing. I know that for me I am interested in that science so I am reading about it. But if you think about it, you can get on a board like this or other sites and get a recipe that someone else has made and just follow the directions. The science/math part is mostly in building the recipe, the rest is just following the directions.

-Stanley

 

[IrregularPulse]

That was pretty much my reaction too. Wait, that's what I was worried about!? Especially with software like Beersmith, AG is easy. it just takes longer.

 

[Homercidal]

I usually recommend a batch or two of extract simply because managing the transfer of liquids, nailing times, etc. is a bunch to think about the first time. Adding the stress of worrying about whether you got it right during the mash is just added bother.

Of course there is a bit of fiddly stuff when preparing to do AG as far as water and grain ratio and mash pH (if you want to get that advanced) but the actual process is not too difficult.

Then there is the extra equipment, and time. But if someone were very eager to jump right in and do AG from the start, I say go for it! It's really not difficult and some people can understand things quicker than others.

I also said, "That's it??" when I did my first AG, but have had more troubles since just playing with water trying other things out. The AG was very easy.

 

[Bithead]

It's what stopped me from getting into brewing for so long. Every time I researched what I had to do it seemed to be more than I could wrap my head around at the moment. Finally I got a Mr Beer and found out one can do extract. It was easy moving into AG after that.

 

[Yooper]

I never thought it sounded scary- but I went into it gradually because of equipment concerns.

I could easily boil and cool an extract batch on my stove, and it was good.

But getting more equipment took a while.

AG is very simple, really. There are quite a few steps, but nothing difficult or complicated.

 

[coypoo]

AG isnt hard. It "sounds" harder compared to just steeping and adding some ME, but that is because you have so much more control over the mash when doing AG. Different rests, tons of enzymes, diff sacch temps, etc. Like someone said above, it sounds much more difficult to someone who doesnt know that most of that stuff doesnt matter for the first batch. Just get it to 154-ish, let it sit for 60 min or so, drain, add more hot water, drain, then boil. Not much to it.

 

[br1dge]

The great thing about this hobby is that it can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it.

There are not always right and wrong answers and because of this there are many different ways of doing things. I think that can add to the perceived complication.

Simple = AG, Single infusion batch sparge. Mix water and grains and let sit. Drain, add sparge water and let sit again. Drain and boil.

Complicated = AG, manipulate water character, manipulate PH of mash, Recirculate mash, Fly Sparge, etc.

I dont think its that any of this is super complicated but just a bunch of different things to learn about. I would suggest jumping in head first and learning as you go. I learn something new almost every batch.

 

[jsweet]

TBH I don't think it sounds very scary at all... well, it did a little bit when I first starting reading it, not so much scary, but too much information all at once... But once I did a couple extracts, I read the process and it seemed simple enough.

The one thing holding me back is that the extra time is a deal-breaker for me. I have difficulty finding the ~3 hours it takes to setup, sanitize, brew, and cleanup after an extract w/ specialty grains recipe. I've got two sons, a two-year-old and a three-month-old. So... yeah.

I managed to get my time down a bit by 1) switching to Starsan for my sanitizer, 2) getting a wort chiller, and 3) on my last batch, I steeped the specialty grains in about a gallon, and in the meantime brought another 3 gallons to a boil in another pot. So then once the grains were done steeping and I had scooped them out, I poured in the other pot of boiling water and had the full 4 gallons up to a rolling boil in <5 minutes. But even still, including all the cleanup it is still like 2 1/2 hours...

 

[AmandaK]

Keep in mind as well that it does add a certain number of variables that the brewer has to control that they wouldn't have to concern themselves with in an extract batch. Holding a steady mash temp, measuring and adjusting pH, worrying about malt profiles, water profiles, ensuring you have enough diastatic power to convert the batch, sparge amounts/type/temperature, iodine testing...

I completely agree with this. It's not that it's scary, it's just that you can make it as complicated as you want. Yeah, you can mash at 150* and drain it and go from there, but you can also fiddle with the mash and sparge pH, temps, or even do crazy step/decoction mashes. But then again, all that control also introduces more ways for the brewer to miss something.

 

[SnallygasterBrewery]

^ Yep, totally agree. Like everything else in life, you get out of it what you put into it. That's not to say that you can't make great AG beer with relative ease, I'm just saying that you can make it as complicated or simple as you want. To me, that's the greatest part of AG brewing is the ability to limit/expand each facet of the brewing process. Not scary, just gets ya all jittery with possibility!

Having said that, I did kinda feel overwhelmed at first, too. It's just natural when you exit your comfort zone, though. It's an absolute blast when things get dialed in and everything "clicks" on a brew day.

 

[Bmorebrew]

I think its all about experience. It takes a lot of reading and fairly good comprehension to attempt to do something like AG all by yourself for the first time. Because of the timing involved, it can seem scary - especially when you need to calculate things and hit numbers (strike water temp, mash temp, sparge water temp, etc.)

I can still remember reading my Mr. Beer stuff before I tried that the first time, which at the time seemed daunting.