Why do we all use Freezers vs. Refrigerators?

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Yeastieboy

Yeastieboy

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Keezers seem to always be made using chest freezers. I assume it's because they lend themselves to adding a collar for faucets without destroying the unit itself.

But what if we're setting up a controlled environment for fermentation. Are there any compelling reasons why a refrigerator wouldn't work just fine? Typically we're only temporarily holding temps around 50-65F, occasionally lower for a Lager. Would a refrigerator not do the job effectively?

Accessibility is certainly a topic of discussion. It was nice not having to lift the fermenter very high into the upright freezer. A chest freezer requires lifting it up over the edge, unless I fill while it's in the freezer.

I already have a chest freezer keezer. I had a large upright freezer for fermenting, but it crapped out. So I'm left to decide whether to buy another (expensive) upright chest freezer with removable shelves, a basic upright refrigerator (cheaper) or a basic chest freezer (cheapest) for fermentation.

Thoughts?
 
I have a horizontal chest freezer with serving kegs (and bottles, and yeast, and...), and a small fridge for fermenting. The couple of times I lifted fermenters into and out of the chest freezer were not fun. It''s totally unsuited for that due to geometry. Also, it's hard to ferment from where you serve, and vice versa.

The small fridge is perfect even though it holds one fermenter at a time. That's the only limitation. But I can't really drink faster than that, so it's no problem. I'd buy a smallish vertical appliance for fermenting if given your choices.
 
If you need temp control to do something other than normal fridge temps, then a refrigerator/freezer is a terrible idea. Those work by cooling the freezer way low and then sharing that cold with the fridge to get the temp right there, generally, and so you'll end up with the temps not working right. If you just want fridge temp on the fridge side and freezer temp on the freezer side, that's completely fine.

I use a cheap chest freezer for fermentation, and I'm looking into pumping beer directly into the fermenter rather than filling it and then lifting it....
 
I find it easiest to get fermenters out of my chest freezer not by leaning over and grabbing with two arms then pulling with my back, but instead holding with one straight arm while the other arm is bent, hand against the edge of the freezer. Use that arm to press like a one handed press up and brace myself and the weight of the fermenter up out of the freezer (if that makes any sense) basically your free arm does the lift instead of your back. Failing that brace yourself against the lip with your free arm and row with your other arm so that does the lift, your back is relatively stable braced with your free arm against the lip of the freezer.
 
tomofdarkness said:
If you need temp control to do something other than normal fridge temps, then a refrigerator/freezer is a terrible idea. Those work by cooling the freezer way low and then sharing that cold with the fridge to get the temp right there, generally, and so you'll end up with the temps not working right. If you just want fridge temp on the fridge side and freezer temp on the freezer side, that's completely fine.

I use a cheap chest freezer for fermentation, and I'm looking into pumping beer directly into the fermenter rather than filling it and then lifting it....
Click to expand...
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply I would use an upright fridge/freezer combo. I would opt of an upright fridge only. But your comment makes sense regarding a combo unit. Probably not a good idea. Thanks!
 
I understand the logic with the combo, but that's all I ever used, and made good beer. I brewed in 12 gallon lengths, so thermal mass might have something to do with it, but for both lagers and ales, worked out fine.
 
Yeastieboy said:
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply I would use an upright fridge/freezer combo. I would opt of an upright fridge only. But your comment makes sense regarding a combo unit. Probably not a good idea. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I don't think I've ever seen a full sized upright fridge... were you thinking of a small single keg/fermenter sized unit?
 
I used a 13cf chest freezer with a t-tower for my dispensing system because I wanted 6 faucets well out of reach of the grandkids. That ruled out keezer collars and through-the-door fridge setups.

I use a 17cf top-freezer fridge for fermenting; the freezer can't be used for much of anything when fermentation is happening.
I use another 17cf top-freezer fridge for cold conditioning & storage for filled kegs, and for frozen hop storage.

You can use freezers or fridges for either application successfully, tons of folks go one way or the other and it always seems to work out...

Cheers!
 
tomofdarkness said:
I don't think I've ever seen a full sized upright fridge... were you thinking of a small single keg/fermenter sized unit?
Click to expand...

They exist. I have one. They call them all-refrigerators, because...wait for it...they're all refrigerator.

On topic, I use two mini fridges as fermentation chambers. It took a bit of work to make them suitable, but they were quite cheap. I had to cut out the door shelving in both of them and bend down the evaporator coil in one to make them fit my fermenters, but now they both work just fine. One of them cold crashes a bit better than the other. That's one obvious advantage to a freezer at least.
 
Thanks for all the replies. It sounds like either a freezer or fridge work just fine as a fermenter, when it comes to cooling. Therefore, it comes down to logistics and cost.
 
SlitheryDee said:
They exist. I have one. They call them all-refrigerators, because...wait for it...they're all refrigerator.

On topic, I use two mini fridges as fermentation chambers. It took a bit of work to make them suitable, but they were quite cheap. I had to cut out the door shelving in both of them and bend down the evaporator coil in one to make them fit my fermenters, but now they both work just fine. One of them cold crashes a bit better than the other. That's one obvious advantage to a freezer at least.
Click to expand...

I had no idea... neat!
 
tomofdarkness said:
I had no idea... neat!
Click to expand...

here-in lies the problem with an all-refrigerator; they aren't common. That drives up the price as well as the time it takes to procure one. And if you have a pretty custom build using one, then it fails, now you have to find another one. You typically see them in commercial applications (picture the bottle beer fridge at a bar; glass door, wire racks top to bottom), which right away raises the price.


For those reasons, many people stick with the trusty chest freezer. They are very plentiful and easy to find used for cheap. I recently had kegs in a normal fridge (at normal fridge temps) and forgot how hard it is to lift a keg and then move it 'forward' into the fridge space, all while kneeling or crouching down. Much easier to lift the keg straight up, rest it on lip of chest freezer, then drop in, in my opinion.

Now, I would like a vertical all fridge for my conical. I fill it using pumps, so there would be no lifting involved. Only when it's empty to take it out and clean. My conical can cool itself to 20 below ambient, but having a controlled ambient would really dial it in and remove my limitations of brewing in middle of summer or winter. (It's in the garage)
 
Also, 'upright chest freezer' is not a correct term. There are two types of freezers; chest freezers, or upright freezers.

Interestingly, the first 'chest freezer' I ever bought was actually a fridge. Plug it in, and it went to 38. Not sure if it was modified, or didn't work properly, or if a 'chest refrigerator' is actually a thing.
 
I use a standard fridge as a fermentation chamber because a dumpy old fridge was in my basement when I bought the house. I ferment in kegs and it can hold 5 of them so it works well for me.
 
Chest freezers are great for beer because of the shape.

Kegs are only about 2' tall and not even 1' in diameter. With a standard upright fridge that means you'd be limited to 1, maybe 2 fermenters, and 3 maybe 4 kegs.

Since a chest freezer tends to be ~30" tall it's the perfect height. Just get one large enough for how many kegs you need. One of my 14.8 cu ft one will handle 8 ball lock kegs.

The way a fridge works is better than a freezer though. Chest freezers are NOT frost-free. Any moisture inside them is frozen to the walls, and will thaw during the off-cycle. That water is inside and must be dealt with unless you like mold. The way a regular frost-free fridge works deals with the moisture.
 
I have a chest freezer I use as a keezer; one nice thing, as you note, is they can be adapted w/ a collar and no drilling through the sides. Here's a thread showing how I built mine w/o gluing anything to the freezer mouth.

What's good about a refrigerator as a ferm chamber? Not much lifting is the advantage I see. I have two of them, a small one that barely fits the fermenter, and a larger one that will fit two.

BTW, with the small one, I found that most of the conflict between the door plastic molding and the fermenter was the bottom of the door. I raised up the fermenter w/ a couple pieces of wood, and it clears the door (barely :)).

minifermchamber.jpg

This shows how I'm getting wires and silicone tubing out of the small fridge into the airlock jars on the workbench. The sides of the refrigerator are where it has the cooling coils, but not on the top. I can run a small diameter (5/16") silicone tube from the top of the fermenter to the outside jars, which capture the CO2 and then feed it back into the fermenter when I cold crash and the headspace contracts.

minigrommets.jpg

This shows how I'm getting CO2 into, and fermenter CO2 gas out of the large refrigerator. I used some Chi Company bulkhead shanks to do the gases, and also drilled a hole (rubber grommeted) to pass heat mat wires as well as temp probe wires into the inside without having to go past the gasket.

newsetup8.jpg

What it looks like inside; one line can carb a keg (I have a rig that will let me carb two kegs at once using a splitter inside), as well as the silicone tubing, and the wires.

newsetup5.jpg
 
mongoose33, what brand and model of mini-fridge is that unit with the Big Mouth Bubbler sitting in it? How cold does it get for lagering?

I'm currently using an old dinosaur full size refrigerator for fermenting and lagering, and it is about time I upgraded my fridge. The one I have eats electricity like it's going out of style. Not wallet friendly, sans that I got it for free. It also can't get my fermenter below about 37.5 degrees while lagering. Better than nothing, but not ideal. I've considered drilling some holes from the freezer section through to the refrigerator section, but I'm afraid of cutting into something that I will regret.
 
Silver_Is_Money said:
mongoose33, what brand and model of mini-fridge is that unit with the Big Mouth Bubbler sitting in it? How cold does it get for lagering?

I'm currently using an old dinosaur full size refrigerator for fermenting and lagering, and it is about time I upgraded my fridge. The one I have eats electricity like it's going out of style. Not wallet friendly, sans that I got it for free. It also can't get my fermenter below about 37.5 degrees while lagering. Better than nothing, but not ideal. I've considered drilling some holes from the freezer section through to the refrigerator section, but I'm afraid of cutting into something that I will regret.
Click to expand...

It's a Criterion 4.4 cu ft model. Here's something online that shows some of the details:

https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/Crite...CCR44CE1W/34004618/LotDetail.asp?lid=34004618

Because the door shelves are offset a bit it leaves room for the BMB if I push it over to the left. I did not, as you can see, bend the freezer compartment down; not comfortable doing that. Because it's still in there, I can't use a standard airlock--though I didn't want to, anyway. So I am feeding off the CO2 produced into the 5/16" silicone tubing and out into the jars.

As to whether it will go down to lagering temps, something that helps is that I took off the door to the freezer. And if you look at the Inkbird on the right in the pic below, you'll see if it can take it down to 32. I don't know how low it might go, that's as low as I set it.

lageringtemp.jpg
 
Nemanach said:
I use a standard fridge as a fermentation chamber because a dumpy old fridge was in my basement when I bought the house. I ferment in kegs and it can hold 5 of them so it works well for me.
Click to expand...

Yep! Most of the time you can find an old fridge on CL for free too. I rip out all the shelves and put a base in the bottom.

When the fridge dies, I'll wheel it to the curb for the scrappers. :mug:

20160817_161400.jpg
 
metaltim said:
here-in lies the problem with an all-refrigerator; they aren't common. That drives up the price as well as the time it takes to procure one. And if you have a pretty custom build using one, then it fails, now you have to find another one. You typically see them in commercial applications (picture the bottle beer fridge at a bar; glass door, wire racks top to bottom), which right away raises the price.


For those reasons, many people stick with the trusty chest freezer. They are very plentiful and easy to find used for cheap. I recently had kegs in a normal fridge (at normal fridge temps) and forgot how hard it is to lift a keg and then move it 'forward' into the fridge space, all while kneeling or crouching down. Much easier to lift the keg straight up, rest it on lip of chest freezer, then drop in, in my opinion.

Now, I would like a vertical all fridge for my conical. I fill it using pumps, so there would be no lifting involved. Only when it's empty to take it out and clean. My conical can cool itself to 20 below ambient, but having a controlled ambient would really dial it in and remove my limitations of brewing in middle of summer or winter. (It's in the garage)
Click to expand...

I'm all for people doing whatever works best for them, But I have to disagree with a few of your assumptions. They are not that hard to get. I walked in the door of AplianceSmart and picked one off the floor. It is not a "commercial" refrigerator. They had 3 in stock when I bought mine. The price was only about $50 more than a similarly sized chest freezer, about $700 new.

I can't imagine how you think it would be easier to lift a keg 3' vertically while leaning over the edge of a keezer. I had a keezer for about 3 years, am quite able bodied and strong, and found that to be an incredibly awkward lift with a full corny keg. With my all refrigerator I have about a 6" lip up to the floor of the refrigerator. It's completely flat and easy to slide or tip and roll a keg anywhere I want in there. It will fit 5 kegs on the main floor, up to 8-9 if I want to create a second tier of kegs in there. (Which would require more lifting of course)
 
NeoBrew said:
I'm all for people doing whatever works best for them, But I have to disagree with a few of your assumptions. They are not that hard to get. I walked in the door of AplianceSmart and picked one off the floor. It is not a "commercial" refrigerator. They had 3 in stock when I bought mine. The price was only about $50 more than a similarly sized chest freezer, about $700 new.

I can't imagine how you think it would be easier to lift a keg 3' vertically while leaning over the edge of a keezer. I had a keezer for about 3 years, am quite able bodied and strong, and found that to be an incredibly awkward lift with a full corny keg. With my all refrigerator I have about a 6" lip up to the floor of the refrigerator. It's completely flat and easy to slide or tip and roll a keg anywhere I want in there. It will fit 5 kegs on the main floor, up to 8-9 if I want to create a second tier of kegs in there. (Which would require more lifting of course)
Click to expand...

An all-fridge certainly exists, I was just commenting that they aren't common. Yes you found one at what sounds like a local store, but at Lowe's/HD/Sears, etc, maybe they have 1 to choose from out of a few dozen fridges. All this means you are way less likely to find one on CL. If I go search chest freezer right now on Denver CL, I'd expect no less than a dozen results. Just trying to be realistic for someone looking for one. Not everyone jumping into fermenting or kegging wants to drop almost a grand on an appliance. I've had 3 chest freezers in my 10 year brewing history and never spent more than $50, and I even made money on one; they are very easy to sell if you don't permanently modify it.

Have you ever lifted kegs into a chest freezer? I would say putting kegs in my fridge was far from easy. Like I said, you are crouching/bending over since you have to go horizontally into a low space. That is much more difficult than standing and lifting something straight up high (since, conveniently, the keg handles are right at the height of most peoples' hands, so there is no bending over at all). Set it on the freezer lip, then lower it back straight down. As you said, as soon as you make a second shelf to fit more than 4-5 kegs, you are lifting kegs now even higher than a chest freezer. You also need a shelf that can hold 250 lbs. I can see where an older person, short person, or a female might struggle to lift the 50lb keg 30" to a chest freezer lip, but a male in his 20s/30s/40s, what is that.. 97% of the people on here? :) 50lbs bit not THAT heavy.
1/4 barrel?? Don't even ask how hard that is to get on the bottom shelf of a fridge! It sucks. But throwing it in a chest freezer is a breeze.

Also, head room. Kegs in a chest freezer with open lid has wide open head room to work with your hoses, qds, tapping sankes, adding/removing/moving kegs around, etc. If you have two rows of kegs in an all fridge, (Or kegs in a normal fridge), the head space is fairly limited, and I just get frustrated easily, trying to hook up stuff, move hoses around, reaching to the back to deal with those kegs, etc, again, all while kneeling or crouching.

In a chest freezer, I can remove any keg without disturbing the others, tend to leaks or change fittings/qds, remove beer hoses for cleaning, etc all while standing. If you have 5 kegs in a fridge and a back one kicks?? Not fun.

I agree, use what works best for you. But someone just getting into this may not think of these things, so they don't know what works for them. I've done both, so I have a good idea of the pros and cons of both and just trying to educate someone trying to decide. Like I said I def. have my eye out for an all fridge for my morebeer conical. They are perfect for that. But I have a feeling, due to price, I'll end up with an upright freezer. I've never seen an upright all fridge on CL.
 
When I was looking for another fridge, I tried to find one that didn't have a freezer. Not common around here, and if you can find one, expensive, expensive, expensive.

I've since come to appreciate the freezer compartment above the refrigerator. When I want to bottle I'll put a FastRack full of bottles in the freezer for maybe 15-20 minutes to chill them down prior to filling from a keg. Cuts down on foam as the temp difference between beer and bottle is small. Assuming the refrigerator is running often enough, the freezer would also would be a place to store thick glass vessels for cooling down a pH wort sample.

Having worked with this refrigerator for going on 2 years, I wouldn't trade it for a refrigerator-only option.
 
I currently have both a chest freezer for my fermentation chamber and a fridge with three taps for serving. I had to build a platform in the bottom of the fridge to clear the hump at the back, which means there's even less vertical space for getting the kegs in and out.

I generally crouch in front of the fridge, grab the bottom and top of the keg, swing the bottom into the fridge and then tilt back upright. Three fit pretty easily, but now I have five, so I should be able to carb condition while enjoying the other three on tap.

For the chest freezer, the only space in my garage was under built in shelves that are just a bit too low, so I have to slide it out to either put buckets in or take them out, so clearance is always a concern.
 
My fermentation chamber is an EdgeStar kegerator that my wife found at a yard sale for $100. As a bonus I got a spare CO2 tank with regulator, a sanke keg, and another tap.

Before that, I used a small chest freezer but it was awkward. It holds fish and meat now.
 
metaltim said:
An all-fridge certainly exists, I was just commenting that they aren't common. Yes you found one at what sounds like a local store, but at Lowe's/HD/Sears, etc, maybe they have 1 to choose from out of a few dozen fridges. All this means you are way less likely to find one on CL. If I go search chest freezer right now on Denver CL, I'd expect no less than a dozen results. Just trying to be realistic for someone looking for one. Not everyone jumping into fermenting or kegging wants to drop almost a grand on an appliance. I've had 3 chest freezers in my 10 year brewing history and never spent more than $50, and I even made money on one; they are very easy to sell if you don't permanently modify it.

Have you ever lifted kegs into a chest freezer? I would say putting kegs in my fridge was far from easy. Like I said, you are crouching/bending over since you have to go horizontally into a low space. That is much more difficult than standing and lifting something straight up high (since, conveniently, the keg handles are right at the height of most peoples' hands, so there is no bending over at all). Set it on the freezer lip, then lower it back straight down. As you said, as soon as you make a second shelf to fit more than 4-5 kegs, you are lifting kegs now even higher than a chest freezer. You also need a shelf that can hold 250 lbs. I can see where an older person, short person, or a female might struggle to lift the 50lb keg 30" to a chest freezer lip, but a male in his 20s/30s/40s, what is that.. 97% of the people on here? :) 50lbs bit not THAT heavy.
1/4 barrel?? Don't even ask how hard that is to get on the bottom shelf of a fridge! It sucks. But throwing it in a chest freezer is a breeze.

Also, head room. Kegs in a chest freezer with open lid has wide open head room to work with your hoses, qds, tapping sankes, adding/removing/moving kegs around, etc. If you have two rows of kegs in an all fridge, (Or kegs in a normal fridge), the head space is fairly limited, and I just get frustrated easily, trying to hook up stuff, move hoses around, reaching to the back to deal with those kegs, etc, again, all while kneeling or crouching.

In a chest freezer, I can remove any keg without disturbing the others, tend to leaks or change fittings/qds, remove beer hoses for cleaning, etc all while standing. If you have 5 kegs in a fridge and a back one kicks?? Not fun.

I agree, use what works best for you. But someone just getting into this may not think of these things, so they don't know what works for them. I've done both, so I have a good idea of the pros and cons of both and just trying to educate someone trying to decide. Like I said I def. have my eye out for an all fridge for my morebeer conical. They are perfect for that. But I have a feeling, due to price, I'll end up with an upright freezer. I've never seen an upright all fridge on CL.
Click to expand...

You raise a lot of good points. I think there is are good reasons why chest freezers are so common. And Yes, I had a keezer for about two years. I am well familiar with what it takes to lift a full keg up into it.

I only stuck my nose in this thread because I didn't feel the all refrigerator was being given it's fair share of 'pros'.

I agree with all of your points in favor of a chest freezer in this post except for the lifting part. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree on that point!

Brew on...
 
Mongoose33: I'm interested in your C02 bulkhead. What did you use to secure those JIC fittings to the fridge wall?
 
logdrum said:
Mongoose33: I'm interested in your C02 bulkhead. What did you use to secure those JIC fittings to the fridge wall?
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by "JIC fittings" but the bulkhead shank I used was from here:

https://www.chicompany.net/index.ph...ucts_id=2262&zenid=8obp57aou9pb8svucrq0a69og4

The shank has a rubber washer, a very thin nylon "washer," and a nut. You can see that in this pic if you look very closely:

bulkheadshank.jpg

I simply drilled a hole through the refrigerator side, and used the nuts to hold the shank in place. In my case, I had to omit the rubber washers as there is only so much room with the shortest one, but that worked just fine.

BTW, before I plunged a 7/16" drill bit through the refrigerator side, I drilled a small 1/8" hole just far enough to get through the outer skin. I then used a piece of wire to probe inside that holes to make sure I wasn't going to hit a refrigeration line. I was 95 percent certain there weren't any (the sides don't get warm, there's a fan underneath), but this fridge works so well for what I want it to do, that I wasn't taking any chances.
 
mongoose33 said:
Not sure what you mean by "JIC fittings" but the bulkhead shank I used was from here:

https://www.chicompany.net/index.ph...ucts_id=2262&zenid=8obp57aou9pb8svucrq0a69og4

The shank has a rubber washer, a very thin nylon "washer," and a nut. You can see that in this pic if you look very closely:

View attachment 417160

I simply drilled a hole through the refrigerator side, and used the nuts to hold the shank in place. In my case, I had to omit the rubber washers as there is only so much room with the shortest one, but that worked just fine.

BTW, before I plunged a 7/16" drill bit through the refrigerator side, I drilled a small 1/8" hole just far enough to get through the outer skin. I then used a piece of wire to probe inside that holes to make sure I wasn't going to hit a refrigeration line. I was 95 percent certain there weren't any (the sides don't get warm, there's a fan underneath), but this fridge works so well for what I want it to do, that I wasn't taking any chances.
Click to expand...

JIC (Joint Industry Council) is what those 37º flare fittings are often called. Love that bulkhead!
 
Stealthcruiser said:
And though not an "ideal" mating to what's probably a 45 degree flare seat, should work good for brewers use with a thorough leak check after install.

I like the bulkhead fitting too.
Click to expand...

You need to use a small nylon flare washer for that to seal. I don't know if the surfaces are perfectly mated to each other, but the washer takes care of that. No evidence of leaks.

This is the one I'm talking about; it's the smallest one:

https://www.chicompany.net/common-i...gs/flare-fittings/nylon-flare-fitting-washers
 

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