Why cleaning my stainless steel kettle with tri-sodium phosphate for first use?

[Finlandbrews]

I have bought a 15 gallons kettle from ss brew tech and they recommend cleaning with tri-sodium phosphate when it is for first time use. Why is it so? I only have pbw and starsan... Should I buy tri-sodium phosphate?

View attachment 1447519799362.jpg

 

[aprichman]

TSP is basically just a strong detergent. The manufacturers suggest washing with TSP because there are often residues left on the kettle from the manufacturing process. Unless you want industrial residues floating around in your beer, you should follow the manufacturer's directions and wash the kettle with TSP. You can find TSP at Home Depot - a good size box is only $2-3 and will probably last you a life time.

 

[Finlandbrews]

TSP is basically just a strong detergent. The manufacturers suggest washing with TSP because there are often residues left on the kettle from the manufacturing process. Unless you want industrial residues floating around in your beer, you should follow the manufacturer's directions and wash the kettle with TSP. You can find TSP at Home Depot - a good size box is only $2-3 and will probably last you a life time.

That s great, thanks!!

 

[wilserbrewer]

Dish washing machine detergent would likely work as well. If you rub the kettle with a white paper towel, you will possibly see a black residue, that's what you want to remove.

Hot detergent wash is what you want, something that's cuts oil.

 

[Finlandbrews]

Dish washing machine detergent would likely work as well. If you rub the kettle with a white paper towel, you will possibly see a black residue, that's what you want to remove.

Hot detergent wash is what you want, something that's cuts oil.

So pbw should be fine too. However they don't recommend it for first cleaning. I just noticed that black stuff because I bought a heating element, I will need to clean that with Hard detergent and carefully as it is electric appliance.

 

[Finlandbrews]

I just saw a homebrew shop selling sodium per carbonate is that similar efficiency to tri sodium phosphate?

 

[passedpawn]

If you have TSP, use it as directed. If not, I'd just use dish soap to clean the keg. I'm sure the idea is to remove manufacturing oils.

TSP is a powerful cleaner, and quite alkaline. Use with care. I use it to clean my roof (mixed with bleach). If you get the powder on your wet hand's you'll know right away.

I make my own PBW with 70% oxiclean, 30% TSP, and a bit of citric acid.

TSP isn't available everywhere. Many places have TSP-PF, which is "phosphate free". The phosphates are considered bad for the environment because they encourage massive algae growth in rivers and lakes (so, they are the potato chips of the envinronment). However, phosphate is an essential part of the Krebs cycle, which is the "motor" of cellular respiration and fermentation, so I have wondered if TSP could be used in the fermentor. Don't do that quite yet though

 

[Finlandbrews]

It seems hard to find as you say. What do people use of they can't use TSP? Isn't my pbw good to use? Is dish soap more efficient?

 

[passedpawn]

It seems hard to find as you say. What do people use of they can't use TSP? Isn't my pbw good to use? Is dish soap more efficient?

Just use dish soap. Don't worry about any of the rest. If you get any kind of staining or rusting, passivate it.

Stop worrying about your pot and start brewing.

 

[DarkStarNJ]

TSP-PF is likely fine for your purpose.

You could also use acetone to clean surface very well of manufacturing oils and grease.

 

[pshankstar]

It seems hard to find as you say. What do people use of they can't use TSP? Isn't my pbw good to use? Is dish soap more efficient?

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. Do you recall what you ended up going with to clean the kettle initially? I cannot get TSP locally, only TSP-PF. I have Oxi-Clean free, but that doesn't seem like a good idea to use. Did you go with dish soap and did that cause any rusting or staining? I'm curious to know if you can recall b/c I pulled the trigger on their 20 gallon kettle which will be here on Saturday.

If all goes well, I will get it cleaned and ready to go for a possible brew day on Sunday. Or I'll do a boil off test and brew later in the week. Thanks in advance!

 

[wilserbrewer]

I think passedpawn already accurately summed this up, quoted below. You just need a hot wash with a detergent that will cut any residual manufacturing oils. This is really no different than any new stainless pot or utensil that you would bring into your kitchen....wash it and use it.

Stop worrying about your pot and start brewing.

 

[Yroc]

I decided I would put them (two 7 gal SS fermenters) thru the dishwasher since I cannot get TSP.

 

[augiedoggy]

I decided I would put them (two 7 gal SS fermenters) thru the dishwasher since I cannot get TSP.

Just a heads up that likely wont work as well as just scrubbing them manually with detergent and a cloth.

 

[jschein]

Just a heads up that likely wont work as well as just scrubbing them manually with detergent and a cloth.

And you will still want to scrub the dishwasher soap off.

 

[Yroc]

They come out shinny as could be (no soap residue at all).. Too late to clean with detergent as they are already brewing.

 

[pat10323]

They come out shinny as could be (no soap residue at all).. Too late to clean with detergent as they are already brewing.

Fermenting ? Lol I just bought one today gonna b here in a couple days cant wait

 

[Yroc]

I have been very impressed with the difference they have made.

 

[augiedoggy]

View attachment 606183 I have been very impressed with the difference they have made.

vs? and how? I have both stainless and plastic conical fermenters and honestly I couldnt tell you what beer came from which by taste.. The stainless is easier to use and keep clean though for sure. As far as actually improving the beer though? fermenter temp control would have been #1 priority on my list.

 

[Yroc]

My plastic was getting old (it was over 2 years) and I was ending up with bad batches because of bacteria... this despite very through cleaning. They where Coopers Starter Kits x 2 and they have no airlock. I am sure this was also contributing to the problems I had been observing.

For example, this.



With the new stainless the batches have come out perfect each and every time and cleaning is a breeze. I am sure new plastic (with airlock) could have given the same result, but SS is forever.

 

[Rev2010]

vs? and how?

I'm guessing he wasn't implying the beer coming out significantly better but difference in use/process. For me having come from the original Cooper's plastic fermenters:

1. Doesn't flex when lifted/moved so no airlock suckback.
2. More detailed/accurate temperature reading
3. Much easier to remove the lid - screw on lids tend to become super tight and need a tool
4. Easier to clean
5. Less chance of spigot clogging due to rotating racking arm
6. Less trub into kegs/bottles as a result of conical style bottom & rotating racking arm
7. Much wider top opening makes dry hopping and adding adjuncts much easier than a carboy
8. Vertically stackable
9. Easy to read volume markers (harder to read most plastic and carboys don't have markers unless manually measured/added to the outside and will fade with cleaning)

Heck, that's thinking up on the fly. If I give it more time I'm sure I'd come up with more but for now I think that's a decent difference.


Rev.

 

[Yroc]

Just for the record I was not a fan of the rotating racking arm. I used it twice and I doubt I will add them back into the mix again. The conical bottom is adequate, in that there is no trub anywhere near the valve so the arm is just an annoyance (at least for now).

 

[Rev2010]

Just for the record I was not a fan of the rotating racking arm. I used it twice and I doubt I will add them back into the mix again.

I love them. The difference though is I don't ever rotate the valve itself. I don't like doing that at all as you can only go one way or it leaks and afterward you have to re-tighten again after reorienting to normal position. Instead, I ferment with the dip tube sitting horizontally. I drain until it's right above the diptube then I use my long plastic spoon (sanitized of course) to gently push the diptube to a downward facing position to get the last bit out. Works great, never had any issues, never had any valve leaking, etc.


Rev.

 

[Yroc]

My dip tube pointing all the way down gathers liquid at the exact same depth as the valve does and it gathers that liquid from the center of the barrel instead of from the edge of the barrel where there is no trub nearby. I find myself tilting the barrel to get more since what is below the dip tube and valve is 100% clear (cannot do this with the tube in place).

Next time I do a batch I will take some photos showing how the tube does nothing other than to add one more part to clean and fail (at least for me). It could be this is because of the type of stuff I brew (I don't get very much trub).

Rev2010 have you ever tried a batch with the tube removed? I should mention that I give my barrel a small shake a couple days before I drain it to ensure anything on the sides drops. This might be unnecessary but I do it anyhow.

 

[Rev2010]

Rev2010 have you ever tried a batch with the tube removed?

I have not, but you make a good point, especially about draining from the side away from the trub as opposed to the tube over it. I just checked and it looks like the diptube sits just a little lower than the output hole. Considering though that I tilt my fermenter to get out as much as possible I am now starting to thinking I might get just a bit more without the diptube in. Intriguing. Will have to give a try without the diptube for one of my upcoming brews.


Rev.

 

[Yroc]

Here is the promised photo. I fermented this brew with the tube removed.

When kegging, I tilted the vessel to get more beer out of it without disturbing the trub which is way down there below the beer (you can see the clear ring on the outer edge). I then put my fingers on the edge of the fermenter to show those looking at this, how there was very little residue on the edges.

This is why I dislike the tube and think it serves no purpose. Simply put, I can get more clean beer out without it in place.

Regards...

 

[Rev2010]

This is why I dislike the tube and think it serves no purpose. Simply put, I can get more clean beer out without it in place.

I removed the tube for my Pilsner and kept it in for my Amber that I brewed one week later. I'll report back after I keg the pilsner in two weeks . I'm thinking you're making a very good point.


Rev.