Why are lagers much more popular than ales?

[Devin]

Then I guess I should be like all of the uber-pilsener lubbers and say something like, if you don't like basketball, then you haven't played "real" basketball.

 

[phenry]

I decide whether I like ales or lagers more by the following method:

1. How does it taste?
2. Good? Okay, can I have some?
3. Is this beer I now have an ale or lager?
4. Use the previous answer to decide whether I like ales or lagers more.

 

[Yooper]

Then I guess I should be like all of the uber-pilsener lubbers and say something like, if you don't like basketball, then you haven't played "real" basketball.

That's a good analogy!

But, really if you haven't had a real pilsner.....................

I used to live in Germany, and it's true that a "real" pilsner does NOT resemble the American version of a pilsner. They can be quite bitter and hoppy, and nothing like the American Pilsner (is that Miller High Life?).

I really love all beer styles (except sours and a few Belgians). I love them for what they are though. I don't compare ice tea to lemonade or coke. Sure, they are "soft drinks" but they aren't anything alike.

The same is true of beer styles. They can be very very different, and while my preferred style tends to be American IPA, I appreciate and enjoy most of the styles available, from light lagers to dark lagers to IPAs.

Some lagers are very definitely heavy and flavorful- think dopplebock- while others are crisp and light, like light American lager. Considering them the "same" because they both are lagers is like considering ice tea the same as Dr. Pepper. Nothing alike, except they are cold.

 

[Dovage]

I think this thread derailed. It was a question about why big commercial breweries choose to brew lagers over ales. Even Jim Koch (Sam Adams) who started as a home brewer, chose to produce a lager. Why? Say what you want about Sam Adams, but it is way more flavorful and hoppy than a Bud,Coors, or Miller Lite, yet it sells pretty damn well. There most be a cost, or big production reason. Are lagers easier to brew with consistant flavors?

 

[Chadwick]

To put this into perspective, I have this story to tell. The Mrs. and I bought a storage building from a local builder and his crew was out a few days later setting it in position, leveling it and so forth. There was a crew of about 5 of them. They started talking about which beer is the best beer. The usual suspects where on the table for debate. Coors, Miller, Budweiser, Natural light, etc.. They asked me what I liked best. I told them that I didn't like any of those beers and that I mostly just drink what I make myself. This, of course, leads us to me bringing out 5 different examples of my best beers and a stack of Dixie cups. The overwhelming consensus between them was that my beer is ok, but I should go buy a six-pack of bud to be reminded of what "good" beer is.

That my friends, is a perfect example of the state of things. Six of us tasted fine beer, I was the only one that appreciated it. The rest prefer cheap swill.

 

[progmac]

To put this into perspective, I have this story to tell. The Mrs. and I bought a storage building from a local builder and his crew was out a few days later setting it in position, leveling it and so forth. There was a crew of about 5 of them. They started talking about which beer is the best beer. The usual suspects where on the table for debate. Coors, Miller, Budweiser, Natural light, etc.. They asked me what I liked best. I told them that I didn't like any of those beers and that I mostly just drink what I make myself. This, of course, leads us to me bringing out 5 different examples of my best beers and a stack of Dixie cups. The overwhelming consensus between them was that my beer is ok, but I should go buy a six-pack of bud to be reminded of what "good" beer is.

That my friends, is a perfect example of the state of things. Six of us tasted fine beer, I was the only one that appreciated it. The rest prefer cheap swill.

you sort of have to ease people into it. when craft beer was new on the scene, most every brewery made a simple amber hybrid type beer. this eased people into craft beer. sierra nevada was the most flavorful beer by a factor of about ten for a long long time.

budweiser is a damn fine beer in its own right, it just very scarcely resembles typical craft beer. as yooper says, it's comparing ice tea to coke.

a good place to start people is with wheat beers, ambers, and basic pales. nothing strongly bitter.

 

[Yooper]

There most be a cost, or big production reason. Are lagers easier to brew with consistant flavors?

No, lagers are much harder to get consistent. The big breweries have microbiologists and master brewers on staff- it's not cheap. The reason breweries make lagers is because they sell alot of them.

For the same reason McDonald's sells burgers that many gourmet food lovers won't touch- they make what sells. Big businesses make decisions on what consumers seem to want. While many people decry McDonald's cheeseburgers as ghastly, the vast majority eat them. We can be snobbish and say we don't like macro lagers- and that's fine. But the rest of the world doesn't agree with us all the time.

 

[Dovage]

No, lagers are much harder to get consistent. The big breweries have microbiologists and master brewers on staff- it's not cheap. The reason breweries make lagers is because they sell alot of them.

For the same reason McDonald's sells burgers that many gourmet food lovers won't touch- they make what sells. Big businesses make decisions on what consumers seem to want. While many people decry McDonald's cheeseburgers as ghastly, the vast majority eat them. We can be snobbish and say we don't like macro lagers- and that's fine. But the rest of the world doesn't agree with us all the time.

That makes perfect sense, and seems to be the answer for why anything is done on a large scale. The Almighty Dollar. I was hoping there was a more brewing related explanation, but I should have known better.
Thanks, Yooper!

 

[+HopSpunge+]

First, I am a huge lager fan. Learned to love them in Europe, and unfortunately, those beers don't transport well, so buying German or Euro beers here, especially lagers, don't represent the beers I had in Europe. Until recently, I haven't had great American lagers at all.

I think you have to sub-divide mass produced low flavor lagers, using rice and cheap adjuncts to minimize flavor / maximize alcohol cheaply, from craft lagers, they are completely different animals. I am drinking a Dunkel Doppelbock right now, and you would be an idiot to call it flavorless. Bocks, Maibocks, Marzens, Rauchbier, Swarzbier, Vienna Lager, a hoppy Pilsner. These are IMO some of the best beers in the world.

Lagers are more difficult to make, at least from the perspective of decoctions, bigger starters, slower temperature controlled fermentation, and temperature controlled ageing.

I had been brewing Ales, then had O'Dells Imperial Pilsner, blew me away. Prost Brewing in Denver is the hot new brewery, great beer. Started to collect the equipment to brew lagers myself, with fantastic results. And some may differ, but triple decoctions are awesome fun. I will admit, waiting months for a beer is hard, but it is important to build a pipeline.

I am not anti-Ales. Love good, malty DIPAs, brewing a Bourbon Barrel Quad Saturday, and I literally dream of Trappist style beers. I love fruity ale yeasts. I have six hop vines not to put 2 oz. into a lager but to make awesome ales. The US Craft Beer industry and homebrewers have done a fantastic job of making fantastic ales. In the end, I think lagers, made in a crafty way, will be the next thing. At least, I hope so.

So, let the mocking begin.

I agree with this the most. I would also like to add (if not already said). That Lagers take alot longer to make. I have asked a few micro and nano brewers why they don't make more lagers. And they always say because of the slow turnaround.

 

[danielofthedale]

I think the reason that the basic, simple Lager/Pisner is the most popular is a simple to explain. They are the closest to tasting like water and have a little alcohol in them. This lets people be able to pound a number of them to quench their thirst after a long day at the mill or plant or in he field and not get drunk but have a decent buzz. There is not a thing wrong with that either.

Now they just are not my up of tea, or more aptly my pint of beer. On a hot day deep down in the heart of the South I want a Hefe or Wit or Saison or IPA. I am in the minority on that but I have always marched a little out of center so it's nothing new. Haha

 

[HPEtech]

St. Arnold's Oktoberfest is one of my favorite beers.. That being said, I have never brewed aLager.

 

[kaconga]

Just bottled my first lager, a bock, it turned out great. I still prefer the complexity of ales but I definitely appreciate lagers more now that I have made one.

 

[chuckstout]

Mostly low gravity, very clean flavor profile, crisp, easy to drink. Im goin to take a shot in the dark and say a lot of german immigrants began brewing lagers in Americas early years and it stuck more so than ales did and advertising and association developed

 

[Braufessor]

Another thought... I don't know if this was mentioned - skimmed and did not see it. Large american breweries use a lot of adjuncts like corn and rice, etc. which are cheaper. Do you "need" a lager yeast/process to make better beer with adjuncts? If you used similar grain bills with corn, rice, etc. and ale yeasts..... would you end up with something inferior (more "inferior" than BMC beers)? Maybe the lagering process allows for use of cheaper ingredients and is therefore a cost savings?

 

[Frige]

I was kinda curious about the difference in taste between the 2. I have a batch of Yoopers fizzy yellow beer lagering right now. It in its second week now. My lhbs guy says I wont be able to tell the difference.

 

[progmac]

I was kinda curious about the difference in taste between the 2. I have a batch of Yoopers fizzy yellow beer lagering right now. It in its second week now. My lhbs guy says I wont be able to tell the difference.

I recently did a split batch of a tried-and-true house altbier recipe. Half the batch was fermented with an ale yeast at 58 degrees and the other half with a lager yeast at 53 degrees. Both batches were bottle conditioned for three weeks and cold-conditioned (fridge temps) for two weeks. The beers will be ready in about one more week. I may report back if anyone is interested.

 

[Darwin18]

Another thought... I don't know if this was mentioned - skimmed and did not see it. Large american breweries use a lot of adjuncts like corn and rice, etc. which are cheaper. Do you "need" a lager yeast/process to make better beer with adjuncts? If you used similar grain bills with corn, rice, etc. and ale yeasts..... would you end up with something inferior (more "inferior" than BMC beers)? Maybe the lagering process allows for use of cheaper ingredients and is therefore a cost savings?

I'm not sure about that. The cost for fermenting in the lager range, especially back in the day, probably outmatched any of the potential cost savings by using adjuncts. My personal thought is that lagers are more popular than ales is because of the North American climate. In the summer, especially in the South, it is hot and humid. I really don't want to drink an ale when I could have crisp lager instead.

 

[kombat]

I would also like to add (if not already said). That Lagers take alot longer to make.

At the macrobrewing level, I don't believe that's true. They may take marginally longer (because the yeast just plain work more slowly at colder temps), but as I understand it, a big brewery like Coors can turn around a lager in less than 2 weeks.

The big guys use techniques and equipment that are impractical for homebrewers, or even nano/micro/craft brewers, such as filtration, centrifuging, and pasteurization, so that once fermentation is complete and the yeast has had a couple of days to clean up, it's bottled in fairly short order.

I have asked a few micro and nano brewers why they don't make more lagers. And they always say because of the slow turnaround.

As I said, the smaller guys can't afford the tools that accelerate the lagering process, so you're right, they'd have to do it the old fashioned way: waiting. But I assure you, Budweiser does not have a vast refrigerated warehouse of fermenters full of beer lagering for 6-8 weeks. They're able to get their lagers into bottles and onto trucks faster than most of us can make an ale.

 

[ObsidianJester]

I suspect it is a combination of many things but marketing is the biggest factor today. As others hinted at lagers at some point in time were not the macho drink to quaff in large amounts they were targeted to women in some countries. Know what else was initially targeted to Women? The old school Marlboro cigarettes. What changed? They re-marketed to a different demographic. I think it is Busch that currently has an add out there that negatively portrays anything but Busch beer as anyone that drinks it is a faker or a snob or both.

Taking the opinion on if the big lager brewers are good or not out of the equation you have a huge amount of marketing involved.

 

[the_trout]

Read the book "Ambitious Brew". The first few chapters are about how and why lagers became the brew of choice. In a nut shell... early colonials drank rum and applejack. During the revolutionary war the Brits cut the sugarcane supply lines and therefore access to rum. Whisky became the drink of choice but the temperance movement derailed it. The mass German immigration of the 1800s brought with it lager beer which was so low in alcohol content, compared to whisky, that the temperance peeps accepted it. Hence lager became the dominant alcohol. Truth is ales never gained a strong foothold stateside.

 

[JKaranka]

I just made a very light ale: pale malt and corn sugar up to 4% with some hops to bring it up to 10 IBU. And yeah, after cold conditioning you can tell it has an ale yeast, with the flavour having a slight yeast fruitiness that you wouldn't get in most lagers.

 

[Crowemagnonman]

Drinkability.

 

[brick_haus]

Didnt read this whole post so excuse me if this is redundant info.
Lagers were called ladies beer during WWII. When all of the beer drinking men were off to war, the better (IMHO) beers werent selling because the ladies liked the clean beer for the most part. The big brewers switched production to only lagers because thats all that was selling. When (too few) of the men came back, lagers were the only beers available so thats what they drank. It caught on and the rest is history.

So, lager is ladies beer...

 

[Evan_L]

Why? You could make a case for any reason, but what it comes down to is the power of marketing and bully distribution. Simple as that. If ale producers had more money, they would be the most popular. Capitalism at its finest.

 

[bbatch]

actually, I never thought of it that way. I always ask myself "what does it say about lagers that they are the most popular beer with the masses?" in all forms of consumption (books, tv, movies, music, food) it's the bland, least challenging brands that do the best.

 

[chuckstout]

actually, I never thought of it that way. I always ask myself "what does it say about lagers that they are the most popular beer with the masses?" in all forms of consumption (books, tv, movies, music, food) it's the bland, least challenging brands that do the best.

No man, its called time, in time the only ale thay well compete with lagers well be saisons, complex, dry, versions not offended with being a cheap date using simple sugars and spelt, corn, rice would probably work also.

 

[highgravitybacon]

Drinkability.

Tastes great, and less filling.

 

[Grossy]

I have never had a pilsner that I like.

So which one? I would like to hear from the community which beer I should run down and purchase from Bizmo or Wine and More that will change my mind.

I ask this not because I want to re-affirm my preconceived opinion, but because I want to shatter it.

 

[highgravitybacon]

I have never had a pilsner that I like.

So which one? I would like to hear from the community which beer I should run down and purchase from Bizmo or Wine and More that will change my mind.

I ask this not because I want to re-affirm my preconceived opinion, but because I want to shatter it.

Victory Prima Pils. Trumer Pils.

 

[ido50]

If I were to look at my country (Israel), I would not say lagers are much more popular than ales. Most people don't even know there are lagers and ales. Lagers are just the cheapest and most pushed beers in Israel. We have five lagers mass produced in Israel: Goldstar, Carlsberg, Tuborg, Heineken and Maccabi (yes, even the foreign ones are produced in Israel). They are the cheapest beers, the "default" ones you would find in any grocery store, every pub, wherever you go.

Up to a few years ago, awareness for the available variety and complexity of beer was seriously lacking here. A friend of mine who owned a grocery store didn't even know there are other beer brands aside from the five I mentioned above when I asked him why he doesn't carry any. These stores got a default supply from a common supplier.

Only in recent years, with the advent of homebrewing, the opening of a lot of craft breweries and a sudden rise in beer popularity, has awareness grown. We now have pubs that carry tremendous amounts of ales and lagers on tap; variety in grocery stores and supermarkets has risen; and there are some new annual beer festivals/exhibitions that are gaining popularity. Unfortunately, several extremely large tax increases on beer lately may hinder this progress, but I digress.

I think lagers dominated the Israeli marketplace purely from momentum/inertia, with the original reason of their popularity long forgotten. The current slip in popularity they are suffering seems only natural to me.