Who uses dry and who uses liquid

[toestothesun]

Use dry for the simplicity. Use liquid for the variety.

If the recipe doesn't require a fancy yeast strain, then use a simple dry yeast like US-05.

I agree.

 

[beerinthebloodco]

Oddly enough, I have had an issue with S-04 as well. It didn't get going at all for me. I pitched another pack and I still experienced under attenuation. When I use liquid I make starters. As long as I make a starter I have no complications.

 

[masonsjax]

I use liquid and dry. I harvest and store both, and repitch on the cake for 8-12 generations before repropagating with a fresh starter. So I don't buy new yeast often. I've even racked fresh wort onto yeast cakes that were months old, dried to the bottom of the carboy and they've fermented out clean and healthy as if it was a big starter pitched at high krausen. It's all good!

 

[Double_D]

I have no idea how it happened. I can imagine a few scenarios that might have resulted in a pack of mostly dead yeast.

I created the perfect environment for the yeast. It was 1.056 gravity wort with one pellet of Servomyces dissolved into it that was heavily aerated and cooled down to 68 degrees Fahrenheit. The pack of Safale S-04 (which had been stored at about 40F in my refrigerator for 2 days since I bought it) was rehydrated in 98 degree Fahreinheit water

If you rehydrated your yeast in 98 degree water you made the perfect environment for dead yeast. I think this scenario was the problem with your dry yeast.

 

[worlddivides]

If you rehydrated your yeast in 98 degree water you made the perfect environment for dead yeast. I think this scenario was the problem with your dry yeast.

Uh, what? Are you joking? Do you think it should be hotter or what?

Every single book I've ever read on brewing and every online post I've seen on the subject has said the optimal range for rehydrating yeast is 95F to 105F.

How to Brew by John Palmer is online, so here:

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/yeast/preparing-yeast-and-yeast-starters

Dry yeast should be re-hydrated in water before pitching. Often the concentration of sugars in wort is high enough that the yeast can not draw enough water across the cell membranes to restart their metabolism. For best results, re-hydrate 2 packets of dry yeast in warm water (95-105°F) and then proof the yeast by adding some sugar to see if they are still alive after de-hydration and storage.

and

Re-hydrating Dry Yeast
1. Put 1 cup of warm (95-105F, 35-40C) boiled water into a sanitized jar and stir in the yeast. Cover with Saran Wrap and wait 15 minutes.
2. "Proof" the yeast by adding one teaspoon of extract or sugar that has been boiled in a small amount of water. Allow the sugar solution to cool before adding it to the jar.
3. Cover and place in a warm area out of direct sunlight.
4. After 30 minutes or so the yeast should be visibly churning and/or foaming, and is ready to pitch.

Either you don't know much about rehydrating yeast or you made a very odd joke...

 

[angrybits]

I have used about 7 different yeast strains. It makes a difference. Not a small difference, a real difference.

Most people (myself included) couldn't make the same beer twice if their lives depended on it. Similarly, most people (myself included) don't have the palette or training to know how close to style one yeast strain gets you vs another. For many home brewers and certainly for newbies, fretting over subtly different ale strains is unnecessary precision and a waste of time and capital.

All of that said, I've made tons of good beers with single infusion cooler mashes and yet I've blown a grand this year upgrading gear and I'm not anywhere near done. It's going to be a similar waste of capital because the beers will not get enough better to justify the spend. So to each their own, since I have no room to cast judgement.

And for what it's worth, I genuinely envy the people with the time, skills and equipment to use liquid in an effective and consistent way. Brew on, sir!

 

[Gameface]

Most people (myself included) couldn't make the same beer twice if their lives depended on it. Similarly, most people (myself included) don't have the palette or training to know how close to style one yeast strain gets you vs another. For many home brewers and certainly for newbies, fretting over subtly different ale strains is unnecessary precision and a waste of time and capital.

All of that said, I've made tons of good beers with single infusion cooler mashes and yet I've blown a grand this year upgrading gear and I'm not anywhere near done. It's going to be a similar waste of capital because the beers will not get enough better to justify the spend. So to each their own, since I have no room to cast judgement.

And for what it's worth, I genuinely envy the people with the time, skills and equipment to use liquid in an effective and consistent way. Brew on, sir!

ESB is very much a yeast dependant style. It is somewhat high in esters and those come from the yeast and how you handle the yeast. You, me and anyone else could tell the difference from one yeast strain to the next.

If you're making beers that benefit from a clean fermenting yeast (most beers) then it doesn't matter as much and there are clean fermenting dry yeasts out there.

 

[Double_D]

Uh, what? Are you joking? Do you think it should be hotter or what?

Every single book I've ever read on brewing and every online post I've seen on the subject has said the optimal range for rehydrating yeast is 95F to 105F.

How to Brew by John Palmer is online, so here:

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/yeast/preparing-yeast-and-yeast-starters



and



Either you don't know much about rehydrating yeast or you made a very odd joke...

I base my rehydration of dry yeast on the manufacturer's recommendation which is 80F +/- 6 degrees for both us-04 and us-05.

I've attached the spec sheet for you from fermentis so you can read it instead of assuming I'm just talking out my ass.

View attachment SFA_S04.pdf

 

[mattdee1]

Most people (myself included) couldn't make the same beer twice if their lives depended on it. Similarly, most people (myself included) don't have the palette or training to know how close to style one yeast strain gets you vs another. For many home brewers and certainly for newbies, fretting over subtly different ale strains is unnecessary precision and a waste of time and capital.

You don't have to make the same beer twice; you simply make one large batch and ferment it in two different vessels using two different yeast strains.

I do this every batch. It's great because the beers are different enough that you get a bit of variety out of a single brew day. Do a stout with S-04 vs. S-05. Or a wheat beer with WB-06 vs. T-58. Tasting is believing; the difference can be huge.

 

[jddevinn]

Liquid 90% of the time. Overbuild the starter by 100mil or so cells then save for the next starter. The selection is not there in the dry yeasts.

Based on some reading I've done lately I've modified my pitching slightly.. after growing the yeast I cool and decant most of the liquid. I've now started removing the yeast from the fridge around the middle of the brew to allow time to return to room temp, once the wort is cooled and transferred to the fermenter I will pull 5-10% volume out and add it to the yeast. After a couple hours when the krausen has formed I will pitch the yeast into the fermenter. Then oxygenate 3 times at 30 minute intervals with 60 second bursts.

Most people (myself included) couldn't make the same beer twice if their lives depended on it. Similarly, most people (myself included) don't have the palette or training to know how close to style one yeast strain gets you vs another. For many home brewers and certainly for newbies, fretting over subtly different ale strains is unnecessary precision and a waste of time and capital.

I really hope that most brewers can make the same beer repeatedly!!!!!

 

[worlddivides]

I base my rehydration of dry yeast on the manufacturer's recommendation which is 80F +/- 6 degrees for both us-04 and us-05.

I've attached the spec sheet for you from fermentis so you can read it instead of assuming I'm just talking out my ass.

That doesn't show that you're not talking out of your ass. You'll note that you said that 98F is the "perfect environment for dead yeast." If that were true, than 80F +/ 6 degrees would be "almost the perfect environment for dead yeast."

The general rule I had been taught was "Rehydrate according to the instructions on the package. If there are no instructions on the package, rehydrate in 2 cups of water at 95F to 105F." And every single brewing book (including How to Brew) says pretty much the same thing. I've seen a pretty wide range of recommended rehydration temperatures on packages, but if they don't have one (such as Fermentis), I go with 95F to 105F.

Fermentis does not have rehydration instructions on their packages of any of their yeast. They just have "Sprinkle into wort" on there. And, if you can get a viable fermentation starting immediately by sprinkling into wort that is 20 degrees below their recommended rehydration temperature, I can guarantee you that you aren't going to lose viability by rehydrating 10 degrees above their recommended temperature.

I don't think deviating slightly from the manufacturer's recommendation and going with the textbook homebrewing recommendation is going to "make the perfect environment for dead yeast." The perfect environment for dead yeast would be 220F boiling oil. And if you think that the time I mentioned where S-04 had zero viability was due to me rehydrating at 98F, then how about the 20 or 30 other times I've rehydrated US-05 or S-04 at that temperature range and had amazing fermentation? What about the time I rehydrated at 105F?

 

[jddevinn]

Controlling temperature is the most important part of the process. Rehydration temperature generally ranges from 95 to 105° F (35 to 41° C) although some manufacturers may suggest a lower temperature range. The ideal temperature for each dry yeast product can vary, and you should strive to find out from the manufacturer what temperature is optimal for their product. Do not attempt to rehydrate yeast in cold water. Warmth is critical to the cell during the first moments of reconstituting its fragile cell membrane. Lower temperatures result in more cell material leaching out of the cell during rehydration, which permanently damages the cell. At the optimal rehydration temperature, it is possible to recover 100 percent of the cells. Too cold a temperature can result in the death of more than 50 percent of the population. You should measure the temperature of the water in the rehydration vessel just before adding the yeast. The temperature of the water can drop significantly if the vessel is colder than the water.

I have to admit I did not do this the time or two that I've used dry yeast

 

[Double_D]

That doesn't show that you're not talking out of your ass. You'll note that you said that 98F is the "perfect environment for dead yeast." If that were true, than 80F +/ 6 degrees would be "almost the perfect environment for dead yeast."

The general rule I had been taught was "Rehydrate according to the instructions on the package. If there are no instructions on the package, rehydrate in 2 cups of water at 95F to 105F." And every single brewing book (including How to Brew) says pretty much the same thing. I've seen a pretty wide range of recommended rehydration temperatures on packages, but if they don't have one (such as Fermentis), I go with 95F to 105F.

Fermentis does not have rehydration instructions on their packages of any of their yeast. They just have "Sprinkle into wort" on there. And, if you can get a viable fermentation starting immediately by sprinkling into wort that is 20 degrees below their recommended rehydration temperature, I can guarantee you that you aren't going to lose viability by rehydrating 10 degrees above their recommended temperature.

I don't think deviating slightly from the manufacturer's recommendation and going with the textbook homebrewing recommendation is going to "make the perfect environment for dead yeast." The perfect environment for dead yeast would be 220F boiling oil. And if you think that the time I mentioned where S-04 had zero viability was due to me rehydrating at 98F, then how about the 20 or 30 other times I've rehydrated US-05 or S-04 at that temperature range and had amazing fermentation? What about the time I rehydrated at 105F?

Wow. Have fun with your dogma.

 

[worlddivides]

Wow. Have fun with your dogma.

Likewise.

 

[catdaddy66]

I have used both and found minimal difference between either. I actually like to make starters but if you're in a bind dry csn save your a$$! I think the starter has produced better beers overall but thats not empirical but observational only...