Who knows about grain bugs?

[stephen424]

My buddy who works at an indiana brewery was about to brew today and found out one of the bags had bugs in it. They think the rest of the pallet is infected so the owner wants to chuck the 4 remaining bags. Does anyone know the risks of using that grain or anything? any non-hazardous bug killer or spray to use?

 

[malkore]

considering how many rat hairs and feces are in a jar of peanut butter, I doubt the bugs are any real health risk.

I guess I'd try to sift them out if they are big enough to be caught by some kind of wire mess that lets the grain fall thru.

 

[jezter6]

My buddy who works at an indiana brewery was about to brew today and found out one of the bags had bugs in it. They think the rest of the pallet is infected so the owner wants to chuck the 4 remaining bags. Does anyone know the risks of using that grain or anything? any non-hazardous bug killer or spray to use?

How big are these bags? If they're standard 55# bags that cost them probably $20, I'd eat the $100 and go get some new grain.

 

[COLObrewer]

I would use it, they won't drink much. Also any of their feces/urine will be sanitized in the boil. Unless of course there are more bugs than grain, then efficiency might suffer.:rockin:

 

[stephen424]

They are all 50# bags. Its all free for me if I want them.

 

[ghpeel]

I say take 'em. Brew up a "Bug Bite Brown" or a "Weevil Wit".

 

[ksbrain]

I wouldn't worry about bugs in the grain. Unless it was a LOT of bugs. But if it's like one bug per pound - who cares? Just do a protein rest

 

[BeerPressure]

These are professional brewers and they dont know a boil will kill bad stuff?

 

[stephen424]

I know a boil will kill it all off. He just dropped 6 bags in my gagrage and it was way different than expected. There arent nearly as many as I thought there were. Now I am sitting on 400# of pils and vienna. Tripels and big beers are on the way.

 

[suprchunk]

They will all float out in the mash. If you want to drive them away, put them in buckets and drop some bay leaves in them. They won't affect anything except a minimal drop in efficiency. VERY MINIMAL. I don't know how they are pros and don't know about this kind of stuff. And saying infection is a bit funny, unless there were more bugs than grain - that would be something to see.

 

[JohnMc]

If the bugs are still alive, they can get into the rest of your house. I had pantry moths get into my house from some grain; they got into all the cereal, flour, DME, etc in the house beside the grain.
I store all my grain in plastic buckets with tight lids now. If I see bugs in a particular lot, I get some dry ice and toss a good bit on top of the grain, with the lid loose. Next day, I snap it tight. Since CO2 is heavier than air, I figure it displaces the O2 and I'm consigning the bugs to the happy grain bin in heaven. CO2 has the added benefit of being not toxic to me.

PS: Even if there aren't live bugs in malt, there are bug parts and probably the aforementioned rat hairs and feces. It's all good in the boil, as others have said.

 

[pickles]

They will all float out in the mash. If you want to drive them away, put them in buckets and drop some bay leaves in them. They won't affect anything except a minimal drop in efficiency. VERY MINIMAL. I don't know how they are pros and don't know about this kind of stuff. And saying infection is a bit funny, unless there were more bugs than grain - that would be something to see.

I agree with using them at home no problem with that. I'm also gla to hear that this brewery has some quality control. There is no way I would knowingly use them and then sell to the public. Just my 2 cents.

 

[chefmike]

These are professional brewers and they dont know a boil will kill bad stuff?

they are professional brewers who are not willing to risk 90 to 450 gallons of possible income on an off taste from bugs. You ever ride a motorcycle or a bike and take in a bug? Taste is great huh? How many does it take to change the flavor of your flagship brew? Because all of those bags would be going into the batch...

What is better: losing $300 of grain (and making a homebrewer LOVE you) or losing $3000 in income?

Not to mention that you as a homebrewer are not inspected by any of the agencies that frequent professional establishments.

And what do you say during the brewery tour when the customer sees bugs in the bag? Don't worry, its in your black pepper at home too? Yeah, that will fly.

Lots of reasons they chucked it.

And all the joy goes to the lucky man with LOTS of grain! :fro:

 

[Papinquack]

If the bugs are still alive, they can get into the rest of your house. I had pantry moths get into my house from some grain; they got into all the cereal, flour, DME, et

Their official name is the Indian Meal Moth and they are a real mother to get rid of. We had some contaminated chicken pellets two years ago and we still get them off and on. We haven't seen them in our food thank God. I store all my Duck food (chicken died) in a closed bin in the garage and check it daily.

 

[JohnMc]

Their official name is the Indian Meal Moth

Actually, the ones we had weren't as brightly colored as the Indian Meal moth pictures I just looked at (gotta love google). They sucked and their little "caterpillars" were gross just the same.
What we finally did was put all food into airtight Tupperware containers. If a container showed bugs, all the stuff in it went into the outside trash, the container got a lot of hot, soapy water. It took about six months to basically starve them out of the house.

 

[Nickme23]

Or you could brew a "miller" lite... (my wife came up with that one)

 

[JohnMc]

As in "Miller moth"? If yes, I'm queasy at that pun!

 

[TheMan]

Sounds like too much of a risk without further inspection and testing. If you send a bag or two to me I'll let you know if it's safe.

 

[Sawdustguy]

I agree with using them at home no problem with that. I'm also gla to hear that this brewery has some quality control. There is no way I would knowingly use them and then sell to the public. Just my 2 cents.

+1 Using the grain for yourself is one thing but using bug infested grain to make beer for public consumption is another. Too many issues to risk their reputation on.

 

[Nickme23]

As in "Miller moth"? If yes, I'm queasy at that pun!

haha yeah miller moth... I hate those things... And normally I'm the one who comes up with the nauseating puns but I guess I'm rubbing off on her!

 

[bull8042]

I needed some Vienna for a brew I was doing last year. The owner of my LHBS gave me a great deal on it because of bugs if I still wanted it. His recommendation was to freeze it overnight before use to kill the critters, which I did. But looking back, it was probably a wasted step as it did nothing to actually remove them from the grain. They didn't survive the mash, much less the boil.....IF, any actually made it that far.
There were probably 30 - 40 per lb if I were to make a guess. None made it through the grain bed into the boil as near as I could tell. And there was no apparent impact on the flavor of the finished brew.
The major problem with bugs in the grain is the mental aspect. As long as you don't dwell on it, and DON'T tell your friends that the beer they are drinking had critters in the grain, then all is well. It won't hurt you and won't effect the flavor.
Consider yourself blessed with an awesome stash of free grain. And seriously consider the CO2/dry ice idea to mitigate further infestation and multiplication and you will only have to worry about using all that grain before it goes bad from old age.

 

[JohnMc]

And normally I'm the one who comes up with the nauseating puns but I guess I'm rubbing off on her!

Well, that one is surely a bad one!