White Labs is horrible!!!... maybe.

[kaiser423]

Thank you everyone for all your help. As for kaiser and reno... I'm here to ask questions about brewing beer. I couldn't care less if my choice of words "bugs" you and I'm actually glad it did now. and if you can prove I did something wrong with that yeast then I'll put the blame on myself entirely. Otherwise its gonna be "the yeast/I" did something wrong. Enjoy your angry little lives guys. Thanks to everyone else.

No problem bucko :fro:

I'll go RDWAHAHB and wait for your thread calling StarSan a bunch of doodie heads because you didn't sanitize right or got a badly cared for bottle from the LHBS or something :rockin:

Just messin' with ya man. Hopefully this one comes out good, 'cause the liquid yeast is worth the trouble . The yeasties might have been bad, but I doubt that that had anything to do with White Labs (probably went bad in shipment or storage). I always keep a pack of dry Nottingham yeast around just in case I fugg up my liquid yeast. Haven't needed it yet, but probably will at some point.


By the way, has fermentation started yet? I'd try to keep that sucker warm (~75F) for the next 24 hours and see if the yeasties don't take advantage of the warm temperature and go to town. If within the next couple of days nothing has happened (checked via a hydrometer), toss a new vial or a pack of Notty. It should take weeks for the beer to sour; I've left wort in a bucket over a four day weekend in my hot garage, and pitched the yeast when I got back and the beer was just fine. I've heard of people not tossing yeast for up to a week and had it all work out.

 

[riromero]

I've only made a starter once for a lager. And I've used WL yeast that is months past its expiration date. I pitch the contents of the vial right in and have never had any problems. It does take +24hours to see airlock activity with this approach though. Maybe the starter method is best for reducing stress while waiting, but the beer turns out just fine either way. The real talent in brewing beer (that I haven't yet acquired) is learning how to wait properly. Man, that is hard.

 

[Nickhouse80]

kaiser, nothing would please me more than to know you're sitting there anxiously awaiting my next reply. Wait no longer man cause here it is.

Just kiddin bud. Midnight tonight will be 24 hours. I'll take a hydrometer reading in the next couple of days and see what I see. I've only brewed a handful of batches but the only time I used WL was with the only batch that turned out terrible. I want to like this brand because everyone else seems to. There has to be something to that. If anyone is interested I'll give an update in the next day or two.

 

[Nickhouse80]

and I have no idea what RDWHAHB means... but I'm sooooo curious I can hardly stand it.

 

[Rick500]

Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew.

 

[Dwain]

Most of these guys/guyettes will help you in any way they can. This board has an, shall we say, eclectic personality. If you make what someone feels is a blanket statement, Hold On!. I would tell you what RDWHAHB means, but everyone would clown me. That's another one of the taboos, telling anyone anything that they should have searched for. At the end of the day, this is a great community that will go the extra mile to help, teach, and sometimes listen. Welcome aboard. Go to the search feature and look RDWHAHB up. Then Relax, Don't Worry, Have A Home Brew. Keep us posted. Luck - Dwain


Dang Rick500, you beat me to it!

 

[kaiser423]

kaiser, nothing would please me more than to know you're sitting there anxiously awaiting my next reply. Wait no longer man cause here it is.

Just kiddin bud. Midnight tonight will be 24 hours. I'll take a hydrometer reading in the next couple of days and see what I see. I've only brewed a handful of batches but the only time I used WL was with the only batch that turned out terrible. I want to like this brand because everyone else seems to. There has to be something to that. If anyone is interested I'll give an update in the next day or two.

He replied! he replied!!!!11!!!!!!1!!

Yea, we're like 4 pages or more into this. We at least have to see how it turns out!

I probably put out some bad karma, I have two vials of White Labs sitting in the fridge for a brew day early next week, and they'll both probably fail 'cause of this thread

 

[Nickhouse80]

Why didn't anyone say that sooner?? I'd be more than happy to RDWHAHB.

 

[kaiser423]

epic fail!!!!!!!!!!!

pshaw! We don't know yet the level of fail. Besides, newbs with hair on fire is not a fail, its a standard state of being! :cross:

 

[Nickhouse80]

Well its been 60 hours and still no activity. I took a reading and its pretty much the same. I don't know where I went wrong. I stirred it up and tried to aerate but who knows what will happen. No airlock activity either. I'll take another reading in a day or two and maybe pitch a second vile with a starter.

 

[buzzkill]

always keep a pack of dry yeast in frige...

 

[JMSetzler]

Well its been 60 hours and still no activity. I took a reading and its pretty much the same. I don't know where I went wrong. I stirred it up and tried to aerate but who knows what will happen. No airlock activity either. I'll take another reading in a day or two and maybe pitch a second vile with a starter.

After reading this entire thread, I don't remember if you posted your recipe or not. Since you have had two possible yeast failures, I'm wondering if you might have put something in the beer that is causing a problem. I use White Labs yeasts myself and have never had a 60 hour lag time.

If you haven't found instructions on making a yeast starter yet, search for yeast starter on YouTube. There are a couple good video tutorials on there...

 

[kaiser423]

Yea, I'd say to toss a new pack of the liquid if you can get more. Otherwise Notty or some other yeast works well.

I may be in the same predicament here. My smack pack didn't activate, and my White Labs yeast was just in the vial. I think that they make have gotten nuked during shipment...Only 14 hours in, but I didn't like that the smack pack did nothing. Damn karma!

 

[davesrose]

Man this thread was in real de-railment! I had to read the whole thing to figure out where we are in all of this. As someone who prefers White Labs to Wyeast (unless my beer is really low gravity, I always make a real starter....the Wyeast smack packs still aren't approaching a good starter cell count), I'm going to say that if your gravity readings aren't changing after 2 days....maybe you got a dead vial of yeast. I wouldn't blame White Labs though. As you've seen in this thread, most brewers who use these products swear by them (if White Labs produced something that was defective, you wouldn't get so much backlash).

If you aerated the wort and have it in the recommended temperature, yet your gravity reading is staying the same, then I would safely say it's dead if it hasn't started after 72 hours. Once you get more experienced, you'll know to aerate the wort and have a big enough starter so that fermentation will take off in just a few hours. But before I knew about starters, I'd pitch a vial of White Labs from my LHBS and fermentation usually started "fairly" quickly (the longest lag would be a day). Where are you getting your White Labs vial? If it's local, then you might have a store that's not very good about getting fresh vials. If it's mail order, always order several ice packs.

If you get really frustrated, you could always chalk this up as a fail, dump it....and then try again with a new vial of White Labs (and make sure it's fresh). But this time, make a starter before brew day.....and before you pitch the yeast, aerate the heck out of your wort. Those are the main elements that also eliminate lag time. But if you're still concerned about this batch....we should eliminate the obvious. You say there's little difference in gravity reading....how much? Don't go by airlock activity or even if there's a layer of foam/kraeusen. Sometimes you can get a leak somewhere that won't give you much airlock activity or kraeusen.

 

[JohnnyO]

I just used my first vial of WL liquid yeast just yesterday. I made a starter on Thursday night. It was a California Ale yeast in an American Pale Ale partial mash kit.

I'm really happy so far. Even happier that I rigged a blowoff tube because right now, it's bubbling away like a kid blowing bubbles into his glass of milk!!

 

[Nickhouse80]

Sorry to hear about your bad karma kaiser. According to "My Name is Earl" you're gonna have to buy somebody a new vile of WL before yours will work again! Err somethin' like that.

Like I said before I've tried White Labs yeast twice now and haven't been able to get either to work. The expiration date was fine on both and the store I bought them from has some serious homebrewers there. I'll concede to operator error but the only thing that I seem to have done wrong is not making a starter. But reading some of these posts a starter is not always needed.

My OG was 1.064 and today it was 1.042. I tasted my sample and it was still very sugary. This is the URL to the recipe I used:

Bavarian Hefeweizen

I added an extra 3.3 lbs of extra light syrup extract which is why my OG is higher than the recipe calls for.

Isn't a hobby supposed to be stress free? haha I love it

 

[davesrose]

My OG was 1.064 and today it was 1.042.

OK, so don't go saying your yeast isn't working at all :cross: If you've dumped two vials in, and it's at 1.042....I would rouse whatever trub might have settled and just leave it be for now. Looks like it's something else...temp or O2 that's lacking for the yeast to fully attenuate.

 

[Jipper]

Nick, what temp did you pitch your yeast into your wort? From trials we have done with WL, it is really hard to kill 100% of the yeast in transit. We have shipped vials to the east coast in the summer and had them sent right back to us, then on to the lab for viability testing, and after 2 weeks in the summer the vials were still 60-70% viable.

 

[Nickhouse80]

The wort was between 68 and 72 degrees. The yeast had been sitting out for 1.5 to 2 hours and was about room temp. I haven't taken a reading for about 24 hrs but have not seen any airlock activity (which I know I can't go by) but has been present in every other batch I've brewed.

 

[tom_m]

It has been about 12 hours and I'm not seeing any activity.

I pitched same yeast (or similar? - WLP300) at same temperature or even a little warmer a few nights ago. It took 15 hours before I started seeing activity.

It has been VERY active after about 24, 25 hours...foam out the airlock and such. Plug popped out plastic carboy a few hours after that.

Expiration: Sept 30, 09
Lot Number: 1300IIHKONH1

 

[Jipper]

The wort was between 68 and 72 degrees. The yeast had been sitting out for 1.5 to 2 hours and was about room temp. I haven't taken a reading for about 24 hrs but have not seen any airlock activity (which I know I can't go by) but has been present in every other batch I've brewed.

Yeah sometimes that happens. The main thing is to save your batch via more yeast - dry or liquid - and see if it happens again. order some more WL yeast via Priority Mail to reduce the damage to the cells and see if you get the same results. If so, I'd bet that somewhere along the lines something in the process is messing with your yeast. If not, it could have been a multitude of issues.

 

[khiddy]

My OG was 1.064 and today it was 1.042. I tasted my sample and it was still very sugary.

You dropped 22 gravity points already, and you say that your yeast isn't working?

If your yeast wasn't working, you'd still be at 1.064.

The yeast is working fine. Just not as fast as you expected. Relax, man.

 

[Nickhouse80]

Well I'm at 1.030 today. Maybe you're right Dude. Slow but sure. 131 hours to drop 34 gravity points? Is that normal with White Labs?

 

[flyangler18]

Is that normal with White Labs?

No, but it's completely normal for underpitched yeast.

Here's a little math to bear out the fact that you most certainly underpitched 1.064 wort.

At the very peak of freshness (like, off the manufacturing line), a vial of White Labs yeast contains 100 billion cells. There's too many variables in handling from WL to your LHBS and viability is never 100% even in the best of circumstances

The standard pitching rate is 1 million cells/ml wort/*Plato

For your wort: 1 million cells X 20,000 ml (approximation for 5 gallons) x 16P = 320 billion cells to properly inoculate.

See? You underpitched by a huge margin.

 

[jds]

Just to nit-pick, a vial of WL pitchable yeast contains 75-150 billion cells, not 100 million. Source: White Labs

Nickhouse: Welcome (belatedly) to HBT. To offer a piece of advice: Forget your beer.

No, I don't mean forget about brewing. I mean take your fermenter, put it in a cool, dark, place, and ignore it for the next three weeks. The yeast is working, and rooting around in the fermenter can't help at this point.

So put it away, start thinking about the next batch, and give the yeast some time. They will reward you. Extra time in the fermenter may help clean up any off-flavors produced from a stressed fermentation, and certainly can't hurt.

 

[flyangler18]

Just to nit-pick, a vial of WL pitchable yeast contains 75-150 billion cells, nit 100 million.

Doh! So noted and so corrected.

 

[Big10Seaner]

I don't even check the FG readings until I keg it. I leave the fermenter sitting for 3-4 weeks and forget about it. As long as you pitched enough yeast and aerated well, you should be fine. Before kegging, I check the FG . I haven't had any problems yet with the White Labs yeast.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Sorry to hear that you're having problems. I guess it's possible that you got a hold of a vial of mostly dead cells, but FWIW I've used WL yeast in probably 60% of all of my beers and I've never had a single problem. They make a solid product.

 

[Evan!]

Maybe it's been asked and answered already, but I'm curious if/how you oxygenated/aerated your wort. Obviously, it's been pointed out ad nauseum that anything above 1.030 or so needs a starter, be it from White Labs or Wyeast...but the health and speed of your growth phase also depends on whether the yeast have enough oxygen.

 

[uwjester]

I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I hadn't noticed where anyone asked what the fermentation temperature is. You said you dropped the wort to 76 or so before pitching, but I'd like to know what the temperature is in the room you are fermenting in. You said room temperature, but that is kind of vague. The reason I ask is because I sometimes have to warm my fermentation room up in the summer. It is in the basement and when it gets hot out, we turn on the AC. The dynamics of my house somehow overcool that closet. For some reason, my wife likes to keep the house at 67 or 68 in the summer. If you are around 60F in there, this is pretty much the behavior I would see.

I use the white labs hefeweizen yeast all the time. I like the flavor that the underpitched, stressed yeast brings, so I always underpitch that strain. I have pitched a single vial into a 1.094 SG dunkelweizen and it overwhelmed a blowoff tube. I had to clean up kreusen off the floor that had gone through the tube, filled the growler, and dripped down the shelves. I believe you should be seeing airlock action with your wort. At the very least, there should be a kreusen.