Whirlfloc and head retention

[winvarin]

I've been reading (and listening to the occasional podcast) about head retention lately. Something occurred to me today.

Whirlfloc and Irish moss (if I understand the product descriptions correctly) are aimed at precipitating, among other things, protein. Some of what I have heard and read about head retention is that certain proteins are key to both head formation and foam stability.

So the obvious question is, by adding Whirlfloc am I trading head formation and stability for an increased clarity in my beers?

 

[mkyl428]

I use Whirfloc in most all of my beers & get great head

 

[mkyl428]

example

 

[trentm]

I have also heard/read the same. I too use whirlfloc and try to remove all break material (hot and cold) possible. See the first image below for the cold break removed from my last 12 gallon batch using 22 pounds of grain. While it is probably true that proteins are important to head formation/retention, it is my opinion that even after removal there is still enough left to do the job. But the main reason I try to remove the break is I just don't like that crap in my fermentor. While satisfied with the results (second image below), I am always looking for ways to improve. So I hope we hear more on this subject.

 

[winvarin]

It just occurred to me, that's why I made the post. Head retention has always been a mixed bag for me. I get good retention for some beers, not so much on others.

I'm currently pouring a Belgian blonde that starts off with a nice creamy head. But it dissipates completely after about a min.

I recently listened to Jamil's podcast on head retention again. That's where Palmer talked about proteins for head stability.

I too use whirlfloc in all my beers and like I said, my retention is all over the map.

One thing Palmer mentioned that I think could have been an issue on this Belgian is the strength of boil. A lot of the "misses" on my hit or miss head retention came after upgrading to huge, 24-tip burners. If I don't watch what I am doing, they will all but have the wort jumping out of the pot. Palmer said this can potentially break down the proteins used for stability of foam.


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[mkyl428]

I know this is kind of a duh response, but what about residual soap film on your glassware? I rinse the hell out of mine with water as hot as I can & i still find some times the first beer I pour into a glass will quickly loose head, but the second beer I pour into the same glass seems to retain head a bit better.

 

[kev211]

Do you guys still use whirlfloc if youre cold crashing? Without trying to hijack the thread, Ill be cold crashing for the first time on my next brew and Im not sure if I should use a Whirlfloc tab...

 

[mkyl428]

Yes Whirfloc is just another tool for clarification used in conjunction with cold crashing it can help clear your beer quite a bit.

The only time I don't use it is when it's a recipe I don't mind or even want a little haze in a witbier or a stout for instance

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Yes Whirfloc is just another tool for clarification used in conjunction with cold crashing it can help clear your beer quite a bit.

The only time I don't use it is when it's a recipe a don't mind or even want a little haze in a whitbier or a stout for instance

I use WhirFloc in the kettle and my beers have great head retention and lacing all the way down the glass. I also cold crash my fermentors before packaging, except for wheat beers and dark beers.

 

[jabba11]

I use whirfloc every batch i think Ive ever made even my wheats (im not really a mitte heffe guy). Never noticed a head rentention issue that I could associate with its use. Have I head had rpobelms with it before? yes but its hit or miss. usually my issues come when I am trying to make low alchol beers and they have a smaller grain bill. This can be adjusted using grians that help with rentention etc but I really dont usually care too much about it. I just want the stuff to taste good and CLARITY is something people want in a beer usually. My friends have never said "this is good beer, too bad it doesnt retain its foamy head very long"

 

[jabba11]

Belgian wit

 

[mkyl428]

I use whirfloc every batch i think Ive ever made even my wheats (im not really a mitte heffe guy). Never noticed a head rentention issue that I could associate with its use. Have I head had rpobelms with it before? yes but its hit or miss. usually my issues come when I am trying to make low alchol beers and they have a smaller grain bill. This can be adjusted using grians that help with rentention etc but I really dont usually care too much about it. I just want the stuff to taste good and CLARITY is something people want in a beer usually. My friends have never said "this is good beer, too bad it doesnt retain its foamy head very long"

Clarity is something you usually want, but certain styles call for haze Belgian Wit being one of them. The pic you provided is a very clear and pretty beer for sure, but I tend to want/like my wit like this

Apologies to the OP not trying to turn the thread into a battle of wits

 

[winvarin]

I know this is kind of a duh response, but what about residual soap film on your glassware? I rinse the hell out of mine with water as hot as I can & i still find some times the first beer I pour into a glass will quickly loose head, but the second beer I pour into the same glass seems to retain head a bit better.

I do the same. I thought it might be soap or dish wash finishers like Jet dry causing it. But a couple of nights ago, I poured a commercial amber and some of my blonde side by side in glasses that had been washed in the same load. Great head retention on the amber. Quick dissipating foam on my blonde.

I am going to try a less vigorous boil next time. Just "rolling" instead of the violent boil I usually get, just to see what that does.


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[HollisBT]

I've been reading (and listening to the occasional podcast) about head retention lately. Something occurred to me today.

Whirlfloc and Irish moss (if I understand the product descriptions correctly) are aimed at precipitating, among other things, protein. Some of what I have heard and read about head retention is that certain proteins are key to both head formation and foam stability.

So the obvious question is, by adding Whirlfloc am I trading head formation and stability for an increased clarity in my beers?

The whirfloc, irish moss, or other fining agent will remove proteins and other items that have already come out of solution in your wort, they will not strip away the dissolved proteins that are a part of your beers final product. In other words, the stuff that a fining agent helps to coagulate and precipitate, wouldn't make it in to your beer anyways, so you aren't losing anything, with enough time they would end up in the bottom of your fermenter anyways.

So go for clarity, and don't worry about any trade offs

 

[HollisBT]

If you are experiencing head retention issues, I would concentrate more on your grain bill instead of your finings.

You may want to look in to adding wheat or carapils to add foam stability.

 

[jabba11]

Clarity is something you usually want, but certain styles call for haze Belgian Wit being one of them. The pic you provided is a very clear and pretty beer for sure, but I tend to want/like my wit like this

Apologies to the OP not trying to turn the thread into a battle of wits

I make beer I like..im not a purist..I felt I said that

 

[mkyl428]

I make beer I like..im not a purist..I felt I said that

Fair enough, to each their own.... I hope you did not take offense, I was not trying to knock your beer, It looks good for sure, if clarity is what you wanted you achieved it & that's what is important, being able to make the beer YOU
want.

Cheers

I do the same. I thought it might be soap or dish wash finishers like Jet dry causing it. But a couple of nights ago, I poured a commercial amber and some of my blonde side by side in glasses that had been washed in the same load. Great head retention on the amber. Quick dissipating foam on my blonde.

I am going to try a less vigorous boil next time. Just "rolling" instead of the violent boil I usually get, just to see what that does.

Hmmm, well I'm stumped....
I would say give it a shot, it can't hurt... just remember it may change your boil off rate a bit......

Good Luck, Keep us posted!

Don't forget to keep in mind your boil off

 

[brewfun]

Good head is the reward for taking care of all the small details along the way. Anyone married for a while knows this fact.

Head retention is always a balancing act between small weight proteins, hop isomers, alcohol quality, temperature and carbonation.

The proteins and isomers that go into head retention can only foam once. So, each time you let your beer foam (fermentation, racking, bottling) you're losing all of the easiest to utilize elements.

Higher alcohols (fusels) reduce surface tension, so control of fermentation temperature and proper pitching/oxygenation are the brewer's control points.

Oxidation and warm storage temperatures reduce head retention over time. Most homebrewers are careful about storing finished beer cold, but those that have a lot of churning and splashing while racking or bottling are reducing head retention in multiple ways.