Which of these yeasts would you recommend for a sparkling apple cider?

[TasunkaWitko]

A friend who went to our closest LHBS (in Billings, 250 miles away) came home with 3 packages of Red Star Premier Cuvée yeast (ironically, in blue packages), saying that this type was recommended. I'll give it a shot this weekend.

Questions:

a) For my first attempt, I am going with store-bought apple product. I haven't found apple JUICE that has no preservatives; however, I was able to find natural cider that is pastuerized, but doesn't seem to have preservatives. As I recall, this is good, since pastuerized is fine, but the preservatives kill yeast. Please correct me if I am wrong. I will eventually move on to using my own juiced apples, but that's another story.

b) The yeast packages say that each package makes 5 gallons of cider. My batches are going to be ONE gallon. Should I pitch 1/2 the yeast packet, or 1/5?

c) I read the excellent article written by @podz, where he mentions adding sugar to boost the ABV. I am not really considering doing this for my first attempt, but if I change my mind, what's a good amount to add to a ONE GALLON batch to boost the ABV a little? Or would the final cider taste better without?

d) Is there any advice or information that I should know specific to using this yeast?

Thanks in advance for all assistance -

Ron

 

[rekoob]

Great questions. I'm kind of in the same boat as you are, just starting out, although I have done a gallon of apple w/sugar for my first batch. I used 1118 and it finishd dry, was like an apple wine is what the wife said. Didn't mind it and drank it up but she didn't really like it.

I have 4 one gallon batches going right now, two are apple w/S-04, one cherry w/1118 and one blackberry I think w/1118.

Each of these have different amounts of sugar added.

I haven't read anything about using sugar as far as how much to use and one another thread I didn't really get any answers to my questions on how much sugar would leave some sweetness behind when the yeast was done, due to the ABV killing if off.

So, I'm just giving it a shot to see how things go. The two apples I have going right now are most likely done and they finsihed up pretty dry or at least the sample I tried last weekend seemed pretty dry. I'm still getting slow airlock activity so I haven't thought about doing anything with them yet, it's been 19 days in primary.

Will be watching this thread for more info and hope to get a final product the wife likes (a bit of sweetness) before I attempt anthing larger than a gallon.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Great comments, rekoob - If I learn anything, I'll be sure to post about it.

Addendum to my post above: I am not interested in back-sweetening at this time, I simply want to make some cider and learn about what I'm doing through the experiences. Having said that, I had planned on using honey as a priming sugar for bottling, but recently read about folks using frozen concentrated apple juice as a priming sugar instead. This is something I might look into a little bit, going forward.

 

[mattmmille]

A friend who went to our closest LHBS (in Billings, 250 miles away) came home with 3 packages of Red Star Premier Cuvée yeast (ironically, in blue packages), saying that this type was recommended. I'll give it a shot this weekend.

Questions:

a) For my first attempt, I am going with store-bought apple product. I haven't found apple JUICE that has no preservatives; however, I was able to find natural cider that is pastuerized, but doesn't seem to have preservatives. As I recall, this is good, since pastuerized is fine, but the preservatives kill yeast. Please correct me if I am wrong. I will eventually move on to using my own juiced apples, but that's another story.

b) The yeast packages say that each package makes 5 gallons of cider. My batches are going to be ONE gallon. Should I pitch 1/2 the yeast packet, or 1/5?

c) I read the excellent article written by @podz, where he mentions adding sugar to boost the ABV. I am not really considering doing this for my first attempt, but if I change my mind, what's a good amount to add to a ONE GALLON batch to boost the ABV a little? Or would the final cider taste better without?

d) Is there any advice or information that I should know specific to using this yeast?

Thanks in advance for all assistance -

Ron

Those ARE good questions! I haven't used that yeast, so I don't really know its alcohol tolerance. I would recommend finding the Red Star website and seeing if they have that information there...I would imagine they would. You will also want to know the fermentation temperature range and make sure you are able to deal with that. That information may be right on the packet. If you hit that ABV limit before all the sugar is gone, you will have a still cider, but should not have to backsweeten or pasteurize. If you want to carbonate, you will need to bottle and carb when the flavor is where you want it and pasteurize before it overcarbs. It can be tricky, but you can do it!

It never hurts to pitch more yeast rather than fall short, but a half of a package would be plenty. If you have an accurate scale, you could go less or just estimate 1/3 maybe. You don't have to be terribly exact.

As for the sugar and alcohol, you may have to play with a calculator tool...Brewersfriend.com has a good one...and see where your ABV will land at various starting and stopping specific gravities (OG/FG --original gravity and final gravity). When I have used my own juice, I have generally added sugar of some sort...white, brown, honey, molasses. If you aren't following a recipe, I suggest adding a cup or so at a time until you get close and figure it out (and keep notes for next time!). Most commercial ciders (and the one you found sounds good...typical) are going to start in the 1.05 to 1.06 range. Where they finish will depend on the yeast.

I made a cider the end of this Summer with crab apples and Pink Cripps apples. I added a little molasses, a couple cinnamon sticks and a few cloves, and pitched Edinburgh Ale yeast from White Labs. (I was shooting for an FG of 1.09, but I think I wound up at 1.113...oops! So, it stopped at somewhere over 1.02 and is sweet and has kind of a caramel apple flavor, but it has a really high ABV and is dangerously easy to drink! (And I left it still and didn't have to pasteurize.)

The experimentation is fun...don't take too seriously. Usually, someone will be willing to drink what you made...people's tastes vary enough that sweet/dry, carbonated/still...whatever...somebody will like it.

 

[Roadie]

I am not interested in back-sweetening at this time, I simply want to make some cider and learn about what I'm doing through the experiences.

What's wrong with backsweetening, especially if it finishes drier than what you want? I made my first cider not long ago using Wyeast 4783 (Sweet White Wine). The cider I bought at my local orchard was 1.045 OG and unfortunately this yeast took it to 1.000 for a 6% ABV cider as I added no sweetener of any kind to boost alcohol. SWMBO likes semi-sweet cider and this was too dry for her so I added FCAJ a little at a time to the 5 gallons I had kegged until it hit the spot where she liked it, otherwise the non-backsweetened cider would have been here for a long time.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Hi, Roadie -

I'm not claiming that there's anything at all wrong with back-sweetening; it's just that I have made ZERO cider, so as I begin and learn the process, I want to start basic and work my way into more-involved concepts and procedures. Heck, for all I know, I might LIKE really dry cider. One way to find out, right?

It seems logical at the beginning that my first cider be simply apples and yeast - this will introduce me to the process and will also give me a base-line for comparison when I go on to adding sugar before, or on to back-sweetening etc. Plenty of time to tweak, but I want to start as basic as possible in order learn and to have a basis for comparison etc.

 

[Roadie]

Hi, Roadie -

I'm not claiming that there's anything at all wrong with back-sweetening; it's just that I have made ZERO cider, so as I begin and learn the process, I want to start basic and work my way into more-involved concepts and procedures. Heck, for all I know, I might LIKE really dry cider. One way to find out, right?

It seems logical at the beginning that my first cider be simply apples and yeast - this will introduce me to the process and will also give me a base-line for comparison when I go on to adding sugar before, or on to back-sweetening etc. Plenty of time to tweak, but I want to start as basic as possible in order learn and to have a basis for comparison etc.

The nice thing about kegging cider is you can try it at whatever gravity the yeast takes it to, but if it's too dry for your liking you can backsweeten a little at a time until you hit your sweet spot. It's not an all or nothing product when packaging this way.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

The nice thing about kegging cider is you can try it at whatever gravity the yeast takes it to, but if it's too dry for your liking you can backsweeten a little at a time until you hit your sweet spot. It's not an all or nothing product when packaging this way.

I like that concept ~ will look into it as I get down the road a bit!

 

[jsiddall]

It sounds like some people have been getting slightly higher final gravities (which means sweeter) with S-04. I would go with that, since I usually get slightly higher FG with it. Remember that *slightly higher* isn't exactly sweet in this case. Instead of finishing at .998, it finishes at 1.002. That's still pretty dry.

Champagne yeast takes it all the way dry, and usually pretty fast (not sure why it would take 8 days - that sounds like something was wrong).

I just finished a batch of cider using S-04 and it ended at 1.001. I also did a batch with EC-1118 that ended at 0.997. So yes, very slightly sweeter. Finding a yeast that finished at 1.005 or so would be nice. Not sure such a thing exists.

 

[JF_HBrews]

Sometimes. But ale yeast will often stop a bit short of dry. My last cider used S04, and the FG was 1.004. It's still dry, but not as dry as when I use wine yeast (which will go to .990!). Of course, I like dry cider so I don't sweeten it either way, and 1.004 still is crisp and tart.

I like S04 for cider also. I've tried S05/001 also with not difference in FG but I feel like there is a little more of the apple flavor left with the S04. I haven't used a yeast labeled as cider yeast or a wine yeast for cider. So I can't compare those.

 

[ericbw]

I just finished a batch of cider using S-04 and it ended at 1.001. I also did a batch with EC-1118 that ended at 0.997. So yes, very slightly sweeter. Finding a yeast that finished at 1.005 or so would be nice. Not sure such a thing exists.

I think there is a definite market for a "cider yeast" that stops between 1.005 and 1.010. I guess it seems like an impossibility, since it is all simple sugars? So many people want something that's sweet and carbonated.

I'm going to try S-04 and Munton's. Munton's has trouble finishing beer, but I think it's because of the malt sugars, so it might take cider down to 0 anyway.

I kind of thought the best flavor came from EC-1118, though.