which of these conical fermenters?

[zack67360]

Hello all,
With fall just around the corner I have started contemplating Christmas gifts. My Son in Law makes beer from kits about 3x/year, and after watching some video recently on beer making I realized just how much work is involved. He makes it with plastic buckets, racking, etc. and know a conical fermenter would save a lot of work for them when making the brew. Want the best bang for the buck, and money is limited, so would appreciate some input from some experienced brewers. I make wine, so do have a little knowledge about fermenting.
Is it really necessary/important to know the temperature of the brew in the primary?
Here are the 3 units I've narrowed it down to, going from cheapest to highest in cost.
1. ss 8 gallon from moonshine distiller. http://moonshinedistiller.com/conical-fermenter-stainless-steel-8-gallon
2. ss 7.3 g from Stout. https://conical-fermenter.com/7.3-Gallon-Fermenter.html
3. ss 7 g from brewing technologies http://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/7-gallon-chronical
Thank you very much for your input and experience with any of these units.
zack

 

[Howhownow]

No meaningful advice here, just a nomination for Father-In-Law Of The Year Award.

OK, maybe some advice. If he is only doing 3 brews a year, possibly take the funds and invest in something to upgrade his brewing system and make the brewing process more rewarding. If he brews extract you could upgrade him to a pretty slick All-Grain system for that price.
This is also the starting price for a kegerator, and it can be set up to dispense commercial or homebrew beer.

On the other hand, you could just stick with your original plan, which would make for a fantastic gift.

 

[zack67360]

Thanks How, upgrading his system to make it more enjoyable was my intention. Not sure what an all-grain-system is, he only does kits right now. Not sure if my answer is relevant to your suggestion The kegerator I assume is a keg type device and they opt for bottles as they are easier to store in the refrigerator as I've suggested small kegs before. Right now they only do 3 kits a year as the whole process with the current set up takes a lot of time. I know with wine a conical fermenter would be a time saver, being able to drain the lees off the bottom without racking and figure the same to be true in brewing. Albeit a lot of time is in the beginning of the brewing process.

 

[Howhownow]

This would definitely be a simple way to make a big upgrade to their brewing. The only reason I suggested other options is that many advanced brewers choose to upgrade other parts of their process before bumping up to a conical and continue to lug around the buckets/carboys. I have been brewing for years and still brew this way. That said, this doesn't mean I don't still lust for a shiny, awesome conical, and it definitely would make brewing easier for me.
The other stuff is distinctly more complicated to buy and to use, so I think you are on a good path with the conical.
For my $.02 on the conicals you have there- Stout is a very respected name in brewing products, and that distiller unit looks suspiciously similar (like, maybe the exact same unit, only cheaper). The SS also has a great reputation. They make another product called 'The Brew Bucket" that is a little less expensive that has a lot of great features, as well.

 

[zack67360]

'The Brew Bucket'? I will definitely check it out, thank you.

 

[outside92129]

I second howhownow's comments. Those are real purdy conicals you're looking at, but at 3x/yr that's a lot of un-used bling. But switching from extract to all-grain will double the work, and double his enjoyment of it (i'm assuming he enjoys the art of brewing).

After sprouting kids i went to brewing 4x/yr and i look forward to spending time with the brew buddies, a brew day is an all-day affair for us, plus post-fermentation clean up, etc. It is definitely a long hard day of work, but that's what makes it rewarding. The resulting beer is almost secondary to brewing.

p.s. the day i switched from bottles to kegs ranks up there with having a kid : )

 

[patthebrewer]

I've had a stout Tank for a few years now...lots of batches...no Probs. Tri clamps easy to clean, not much more that guy could want

 

[dfess1]

I'd go with the brewbucket myself. Like you said, he does 3 batches a year. That seems to be a little easier to carry around from where he brews to where it ferments. I'm assuming he's brewing on a stove top and fermenting in a closet somewhere else there. I've got no experience with it, but a friend has one and loves the handles and being able to cart it up and down stairs easily. Just my .02

That said, that's a great gift! Talk to my MIL would ya??

 

[CA_Mouse]

I tend to agree that a conical, while easier to use in the long term, would be under utilized only brewing 3 times a year. I brew between 15 and 20 times a year and have yet to buy a conical. I have spent more of my time and money on upgrading smaller highly used parts of my home brewery. I would talk to the s-i-l and find out if there was anything that his current brewery could use that would make it easier and more enjoyable.

 

[dfess1]

Problem with upgrading the brewery bits is you go down the veritable rabbit hole. I agree there are other things that could make brewing easier, perhaps to the point where he does it more than 3 times a year. But like most of us know, alot of that comes down to personal preference and how you want to skin that cat. This option, and it's a nice option, allows the SIL to continue doing what he's doing, and make the decision for himself if he wants to step up his game. Sometimes a nice gift is just that, a really nice gift.

 

[pvpeacock]

I have a Stout conical and love it. However, having a conical is not much use if you cannot control fermentation temperatures. I learned that early on when I fermented a red IPA in the summer with it and internal wort temeratures hit 80 degrees. Not good; the beer tasted aweful. I cannot use my conical in the summer, because it's too big to fit in my fermentatin chamber. bottom line, despite the wow factor, I would rather ferment in a bucket in a small refrigerator with temp. control that an uncontrolled conical.

 

[Auger]

Another option would be, if he's bottling, to look at getting him a kegging setup (1 or 2 kegs, a CO2 tank, regulator and tap). I know personally, that is the one area of my brewing that I really wished I had upgraded long before I did. Its something that can use fully utilized whether extract or all-grain brewing, and who knows, he might take the several hours saved from bottling beer and start brewing more often. OR, see if you can discretely find out (via, say, his significant other), if he were to upgrade/expand anything in his system, which part would be first on the list?

Also another vote for FIL of the year!

 

[ndinh]

Like everyone above, although I would love for my wife to surprise me with a shiny conical, I'd rather dump the money on other things that will make the brewing process much easier physically and less time consuming. A nice pump, while not as sexy, makes a world of a difference. Also, large 'shiny' kettles with valves help alot. The downside to a brew bucket is that you can't dump the yeast and trub from the bottom so it's basically an expensive fermentation bucket.

 

[zack67360]

And I thought I had this figured out:smack: The beer making is a family affair with the gkids and all, so it's like family time. I know after brewing they take it down into the basement for better temperature control. For now, they are set on bottling the brew when it's done, and also set only on the box kits. I shop at HighGravity for my wine supplies and they have a HUGE selection of grains and hops and will put together whatever you want and have offered to purchase a customized ingredients for them, but they are not confident enough in their skills and want only a kit with step by step instructions. They currently use a turkey fryer (aluminum) to boil in and Daughter stated a wort cooler would be very handy. I have watched a youtube video and can build one of these no Prob. Questions, 1. why do you have trouble with temperature in a conical and not in a bucket? 2. What is the pump used for/ ie at what point? 3. Do they make pots with valves that can be used on top of the stove? Yes, they brew on a burner in the garage or outside.
CA_Mouse, can you make some suggestions? If I ask S-I-L, he'd know what he was getting for Xmas and I'm big on surprises and keeping it secret. I don't put names on the gifts, but use a code instead because S-I-L looks through the packages, shakes and has an UNCANNY ability of guessing what's inside I change the code every year
I do know they have a refrigerator in the garage they use to put the bottled beer in after bottling to finish.
Hey everyone, thank you a lot for all the help and suggestions, I appreciate it very much since the only contact I've had with beer is pouring it past my lips

 

[dfess1]

If they are sticking with kits, the best thing to do would be the wort chiller, and getting a large enough pot to do a full wort boil. If their turkey fryer isn't large enough to do that, I'd get a larger pot. Going from a concentrated boil to a full wort boil makes a huge difference. So I'd go those two routes, especially since they already have a propane burner.

To answer your other question, you have the same problem controlling the temp on a conical as you do a bucket. Being able to control the temp on fermentation would be my next step after the larger pot and wort chiller. If they are staying with kits, which is absolutely fine (and damn good beer can be made with that), there's no need for a pump at this time, assuming your ground water is cold enough. Not sure where you are located.

 

[pvpeacock]

The only reason I cannot control my conical's fermentation temperatures is that my fermentation chamber is not big enough. The chamber will, however, hold a bucket or 6 gallon plastic carboy. I would look at a better brew kettle with a ball valve and a good wort chiller.

 

[zack67360]

Thanks dfess1. They live in Garden City, KS; we live in SE corner of KS. I have found some brew pots with valves, the 10 gallon be large enough for a full wort boil? I know daughter has commented something about not being able to get up to a full boil if too much liquid, so I assume they are probably not doing a full wort boil now.

 

[cannman]

On the other hand, you could always buy him a couple of All-Grain kits and let him spend the money on upgrading his brew equipment. As you can see, there are a lot of options here, not all of which may be what your son-in-law needs most. Regardless of my equipment deficiencies at any time, I could always use a kit

 

[dfess1]

Thanks dfess1. They live in Garden City, KS; we live in SE corner of KS. I have found some brew pots with valves, the 10 gallon be large enough for a full wort boil? I know daughter has commented something about not being able to get up to a full boil if too much liquid, so I assume they are probably not doing a full wort boil now.

Those are two different issues. A 10 gal pot would be fine. What they call a full wort boil means you have all of the liquid you will put in your fermentor, in your brew pot. If doing a 5 gal batch, this typically means somewhere around 7 to 8 gallons. You burn off x amount (depending on the pot) during a boil to get you down to 5ish gallons.

If your daughter has commented that they can't get to a full boil if too much liquid, that would indicate that the burner doesn't put out enough BTU's to get it up to temp. At that point, you can look into a new burner. If you're handy enough, or he, you can buy just the burner itself and swap it out in the stand they already have. Not really much to it.

Does that make sense?

 

[Doctor_M]

I think you can still get them a conical or brew bucket and help them make better beer, especially since ssbrewtech.com is releasing this in the fall http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collectio...temperature-control-for-half-barrel-chronical

My vote is ssbrewtech.com simply because of that and it will be pretty much plug and play. Get your son in law one of their brew buckets or better yet their chronical with temperature control and it will for sure improve their beer.

Being able to bring the wort http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wort to a full boil, being able to chill your wort quickly after the boil with an immersion chiller https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Wort_chiller, and temperature control during fermentation (like what you can do with the brewbucket/ chronical with the link I provided above) are some of the easiest ways for them to improve their beer regardless of whether they are brewing extract kits or brewing all grain http://brewwiki.com/index.php/All_Grain

 

[SuliBrew]

I just started brewing over the past year and jumped in with both feet. I was lucky enough to have a neighbor teach me before diving in. Did a bunch of allgrain before even trying extract. did one and now back to all grain. Found a ton of used gear online...doesn't have to be brand spanking new, but functional and clean. If I were starting, i would pick these up in this order.
1 Book on brewing(my first was radical brewing)
2 10-12 gallon ss kettle with ball valve. easy enough to find on CL.
3 Wort Chiller.
4 Swingtop bottles. (makes bottling easy)
5 Scales - small to measure out hops.
6 refractometer...fun to have in addition to hydrometer.
7 Good digital thermometer. at least 12 inch stem.
8 extract kit of your choosing.

if they do decide to go allgrain, then mashtun, Hot liquor tank and barley crusher can be added.

 

[zack67360]

Thanks dfess. That helps. I am handy, S-I-L not much so, especially with plumbing Thanks for the links Doc, costs run up fast don't they on this nicer equipment.
SuliBrew, thank you for the list. What category is brew equipment commonly posted under on CL?

 

[SuliBrew]

brew supplies are all over the place on cl.
I just search the home screen for homebrew or kettle or mash tun. Typically its brewers who no longer have time and are getting out of the hobby or brewers who are upgrading and are looking to fund their next purchase. good luck.

 

[zack67360]

Thanks suli, not experienced with CL either but will look around.

 

[heckels]

+1 for father-in-law of the year. Especially going to this effort to find the prefect gift!

So I started on a Mr. Beer kit and then progressed to extract and the all grain after about a year of extract.

The VERY first upgrade I made was an immersion chiller. I made this myself out of flexible copper tubing and soldering the necessary hose hook ups. Being able to chill your wort in a matter of 20 mins compared to an hour or more in an ice bath is well worth he $50 investment.

The next upgrade was my kettle so that I could do full wort boils. This helps from a constancy and sanitation standpoint. Also, you can easily add a valve and thermometer. A valve makes a world of difference.

Going full boil pretty well dictated that I move outdoors with a burner (or use an electric element to supplement which we will not get into here). Upgrading my burner was a HUGE time saver. The one that came with my Turkey fryer took forever to bring 8 gals to a boil. Upgrading easily cut an hour from my brew day.

Lastly, while doing extract I upgraded to kegging. I wish that would have been sooner on my list. It saves so much time over bottling. I get that the SIL is hesitant to move to kegging due to being able to fit bottles in the fridge. May I suggest something like this if that is a true limitation?

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/party-pig-system.html


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[paperairplane]

Doing extract kits step 1 is a 9 gallon pot and good turkey fryer burner, got both at sams for under $75 - still use the burner with my keggle.

Next on my 5 gallon list is kegging - so much faster than bottling and so much easier.

Third is fermentation temperature control.

 

[zack67360]

The suggestions made so far has enlightened me to the realization that though a conical fermenter has a lot of WOW factor, other equipment would serve my S-I-L much better with his brewing at this point. Upgrades I have decided on are 1. a new brew pot. 2. The wort chiller. 3. Upgrading the burner he has which is the one that came with his turkey fryer.
The Blichmann Boilermaker G2 looks nice (nice $$ too) and offers options of a false bottom and a hopBlocker, but that kicks the price tag up as well. How much convenience does this serve, and is it worth the $$ ? I like the looks of the 10g kettle by brewTech, what does the trub dam pickup do though?

 

[podz]

Buying a stainless steel conical fermenter for a person who brews 3 kits per year is equivalent to sending a large, expensive dust collector to their home.

Maybe you could just ask your daughter what he would like to have.

 

[dfess1]

The suggestions made so far has enlightened me to the realization that though a conical fermenter has a lot of WOW factor, other equipment would serve my S-I-L much better with his brewing at this point. Upgrades I have decided on are 1. a new brew pot. 2. The wort chiller. 3. Upgrading the burner he has which is the one that came with his turkey fryer.
The Blichmann Boilermaker G2 looks nice (nice $$ too) and offers options of a false bottom and a hopBlocker, but that kicks the price tag up as well. How much convenience does this serve, and is it worth the $$ ? I like the looks of the 10g kettle by brewTech, what does the trub dam pickup do though?

Blichmann's are alot of money. I own one. I hadn't found this community when I bought it. It's a nice shiney pot, and I use it with the false bottom now for my mash tun. But had I realized the plethora of options out there, I wouldn't have gone that route in the first place. I put together a brew kettle AND a hot liqour tank, with thermos and fittings for what the one Blichmann cost. But, I was also looking to put together a system that uses 3 15 gal pots for all grain. Do they all match? no. But I'm a function over form guy.

There is also a big debate of the new valve on the G2. I'm not a huge fan of it's design personally. For the money I'd look at a Spike Brewing kettle, one of the Bayou Classic kettles, or piece together one of the concord kettles. You can get a false bottom for any of them. But again, doing kits right now, he doesn't need that. And I've yet to see someone who has actually liked the hopblocker. I don't believe it works as well as it's intended to. You're better off making a hopspider for 10 bucks worth of materials.

As you listed out, a kettle, the wort chiller, and a better burner will make a big difference on their brew day. A bigger burner gets the boil going quicker, cut down on time. The wort chiller gets it cooled down quicker, cutting down on more time. And the larger pot will allow them to make some better tasting beer.

 

[zack67360]

Podz- Yep, describes me especially at Christmas. Learned long ago if you go cheap the first time it costs more $. Buy cheap first, then end up buying the better one after getting sick of screwing around with the cheap one to make it work. But now I'm older and have learned to RESEARCH to get the most bang for my buck instead of going top of the line; also, I like the WOW factor as mentioned. But WOW does not always = functionality.
Thanks dfess, the Spike is one I have looked at (like it's made in USA), the ss brewtech, and the megapot 1.2. Knowing he would not use the false bottom and that a hopspider (?) can be made is good to know. Will have to do a search for the hopspider.
I have been reading the thread on here about the new boilermaker G2, as many have stated, the valve to me is of concern as well.

 

[Darwin18]

Is it really necessary/important to know the temperature of the brew in the primary?

Yes. It is actually the most important factor in making the consistently best beer possible. All a conical is a fancy fermenter. It isn't going to make their beer any better, although it does look very cool. Save yourself some money and buy them something like this:

http://morebeer.com/products/cool-brewing-insulated-fermentation-bag.html

It will make a huge difference in the quality of their beer and you'll be a hero in their eyes.

 

[zack67360]

Thanks Darwin, that's a cool idea and have saved the link in my favorites of items I'm looking at. Will def. get a brew pot with a thermometer.

 

[zack67360]

I can see how temperature control is important, thus the thermometer built in. This brings up another issue with getting a new burner for them; not only the need to bring the wort up to a roiling boil faster, but the ability to control the temperature once obtained. MAN, beer making is involved!! Wine is much simpler by far.

 

[podz]

MAN, beer making is involved!! Wine is much simpler by far.

Yeah, no kidding.

 

[outside92129]

zack - with what you're learning you could join in on the fun!

Here's a good source for hop filters/spiders. Well received by folks on the forum and i have one too. I made a couple of the years and messed around with hop socks but i can't compete with a guy with a spot welder for mesh.
https://arborfab.com/product-category/brewing-filters/

(in case you wanted to complicate your decision making even more : )

 

[Poobah58]

Don't see where a conical is going to save any time at all. Just as easy to clean and sanitize a bucket. Yeast ranching might be easier but a 3-4 beers a year, not worth the expense. Consider updating his brew equipment. Brew kettles, immersion/counter flow chillers, mash temperature control, fermentation temp control, etc...

 

[Doctor_M]

zack - with what you're learning you could join in on the fun!

Here's a good source for hop filters/spiders. Well received by folks on the forum and i have one too. I made a couple of the years and messed around with hop socks but i can't compete with a guy with a spot welder for mesh.
https://arborfab.com/product-category/brewing-filters/

(in case you wanted to complicate your decision making even more : )

I find these more aesthetically appealing http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/Hop-Spider-with-seam-welds_p_158.html

 

[Howhownow]

You can get a false bottom fabricated for any pot. My suggestion for that is to contact Jay at norcal brewing- they make the best on the market (my opinion, but you'll find plenty of folks here who share it).

 

[zack67360]

Well, wanted to see and check out some brew pots so we made a trip down to Tulsa today to the wine/brew store and what do you know, right in the middle of the store they had a close out on all the Blichmann G1 Boilermakers. They were on sale PLUS another 20% off the sale price, so that clinched it for me. Guess they were wanting to move the G1s to make room for the G2s. I'm happy with my purchase even if they won't work with conduction style heating; and I'm sure SIL will be please too. Only thing was they didn't have the grain filter for it in stock for all grain brewing; not even sure they can still get them, but will have to check with Jay at norcal brewing. Maybe you can PM me the contact information.

 

[zack67360]

Found the norcal website. Thanks for the heads up. Cheaper than the ones in Tulsa for the G2 10 gallon pots.