Which apples or Apple blends make the best cider

[globell]

I'll be grafting some apple trees come spring and looking to see if anyone has info on the test cider specific apples or Apple combos that produce awesome cider.

Used a bunch of apples this year (about 800lbs) and results are mixed. Good juice doesn't mean good cider. Tart juice doesn't mean good cider.

Anyone have experience with this?

 

[madscientist451]

There are Thousands of apple tree varieties to choose from.
You can make decent cider from dessert apples if you use the sweet, tart and aromatic varieties in the right proportions. Getting apples with low acid and high tannins (bittersweet varieties) and high acid/high tannins (bittersharp) is pretty difficult right now unless you grow your own.
Your first stop should be Amazon and get a few books about cidermaking that will explain all the numerous details.
Next, where are you going to get the cuttings and the proper rootstock for cider apples? Some varieties don't grow properly on a dwarf rootstock. Also the growing temperature has an effect on the acid/tannin development. Some cider apples tend to be biennial.
Apples have at least 4-5 different bloom times, so you the right trees that will pollinate each other. Some apples are more prone to disease and insect problems than others.
I was all set to order a bunch of apple trees to plant 3 years ago, but I held back and am glad that I did. I've been observing the date of the last frost in the spring and the effect it has on my existing apple trees and others in the area. I've also been making lots of cider using different blends and now have a better handle on what might work in my area. Planting something like a specialty fruit crop is always a gamble.
An apple tree that produces really good cider apple juice in northern France isn't going to produce the same thing in heat of Virginia or California. You'll get some apples, but they won't have the same qualities.
So try to find if anyone in your area is growing apples for cider and find out what works for them. Good Luck.

 

[WVMJ]

So where are you at? What kind of cider are you trying to make? One with lots of tannin or a sweet appley kind? Good idea to start on getting your rootstocks and scions ordered now. One good thing, if you grow the wrong variety its pretty easy to graft over it and make a new tree on the old roots. Also how much room do you have, how many trees you looking at and have you done any soil testing yet to know if your ground is ready for trees?? WVMJ

 

[globell]

Thanks.

I am experienced in grafting but not in cider so not sure which apples provide great Apple flavoured cider. I've hie nestle only tried a few craft ciders and most here are alcoholic pop like ciders.

I'm located in western Canada and looking for single variety apples mostly. I have 12 trees that were planted his yearn but would like a couple solid cider only apples. We have about 30 grafted whips I'll likely add cider apples and do some espalier along our back fence.

I've tried about 80 apples this year.

I agree apples in one area don't taste like others grown elsewhere

Any experience with winesap, haralson, kingston black, Yarlington mill dabinett?

Looking for a more full Apple flavour apple and will likely blend a few with it.

 

[WVMJ]

The New Cider Maker's Handbook: A Comprehensive Guide for Craft ProducersOct 1, 2013
by Claude Jolicoeur

 

[BILTIT]

Subscribed!

I have 2 apple trees, unsure on exact type but one is a tart yellow/green and one is a more bland (cooking) yellow/green. I will be using them to make cider next fall.

Western canada here aswell.

 

[madscientist451]

Id you want apple flavored cider, simply make a dry base cider and back sweeten to taste with frozen apple juice concentrate.
If you want a french style cider, you'll have to grow some varieties with a high tannin content.
All the varieties you mentioned are good ones, but some are used for different purposes. You can go ahead and plant them, wait a few years for fruit, press and ferment and then evaluate what you have.
But a better way would be a road trip and visit as many local cider producers as possible and see what they are growing.

 

[mwilcox]

Any experience with winesap, haralson, kingston black, Yarlington mill dabinett?

have used every one of these, and all among my favorites. Most YM I get is too low on acidity to use as single-varietal, but oh those soft tannins. KB is too finicky to bother growing myself but I'll happily use any I can get from others.

In addition to Claude's book, find a successful pro in your same Hardiness Region and see what apples they use.

 

[MindenMan]

There is a 40 minute video of Claude talking about making ice cider IIRC; this of course would have to start with some amazing juice blends.
There is an incredible amount of information to absorb, so I will watch it a few more times I am sure. I am ready to bottle our first batch of ice cider, and hating the idea of having to wait a year (or more) before we get to taste what we have made. I have never yet had a cider mill made ice cider, so what we think is great to us might not be as great compared to say, Eden or one of the other well known award-winning producers of ice ciders. Until I made my first batch of applejack I had never tasted any before, and now the waiting before drinking is a real killer. Sorry for the side-track.

 

[WVMJ]

Do you have a link to that video?

There is a 40 minute video of Claude talking about making ice cider IIRC; this of course would have to start with some amazing juice blends.
There is an incredible amount of information to absorb, so I will watch it a few more times I am sure. I am ready to bottle our first batch of ice cider, and hating the idea of having to wait a year (or more) before we get to taste what we have made. I have never yet had a cider mill made ice cider, so what we think is great to us might not be as great compared to say, Eden or one of the other well known award-winning producers of ice ciders. Until I made my first batch of applejack I had never tasted any before, and now the waiting before drinking is a real killer. Sorry for the side-track.

 

[madscientist451]

Here's the you tube version of the Ice Cider presentation:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdLAThSueAA[/ame]

And also on You Tube, Cider varieties compared:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1IKw0_M5XM[/ame]

 

[globell]

Excited. Thanks

 

[Maylar]

Anybody have a link to a web page that compares the North American apple varieties for sugar/acid/tannin? Most everything I've found about cider apples is for English or French apples.

 

[mwilcox]

Anybody have a link to a web page that compares the North American apple varieties for sugar/acid/tannin? Most everything I've found about cider apples is for English or French apples.

there's just so many varieties...are there some specific ones you have questions about?

 

[Maylar]

there's just so many varieties...are there some specific ones you have questions about?

Yeah - Winesap, Fuji, Empire, and Granny Smith.

Tnx.

 

[mwilcox]

Yeah - Winesap, Fuji, Empire, and Granny Smith.

Tnx.

just starting with what I consider the best apple on your list - the winesap I've used have ranged from 1.048 to low 60's with near 1.055 the most common. I've made single variety winesap cider with good results. it's not complex, but has the "not apple" fruitiness that I often enjoy. I think the "wine-like" descriptor is fairly apt, and often call it outright "foxy."

I don't have acid numbers here at work but should have some at home. 7g/L sounds about right but I'll check. Somewhat high, not screamingly high. Low but discernible tannin with very little bitterness. Makes an acid-forward cider of very low color IME. I often lose the character in a blend but find that acid is still a good base to work with.

I've used Granny Smith a few times as the foil for super sweet apples, like when I had some very sweet McIntosh. Nothing exciting about the apple IME but the ubiquitous nature of having an acid source available year round is nice. I don't think I've ever gotten more than 1.050. Acidity was high to very high as anyone can attest. I've got 10g/L in my head but will check my notes.

Fuji...I've backsweetened with its kinda-sorta-tropical and vaguely floral juice, that's about it. Never measured anything about it but I would expect it to be near 1.060 with its sweetness, and would be surprised if acidity was >5g/L. I'd be wary about the possible high pH of this juice; it'll need an acid partner.

I've used blends that had Empire in them, but haven't juiced them myself, sorry. Anything with a McIntosh parent should be fairly decent even if the other is Red Delicious, and I'm sure the sugar is fairly high and the acidity no more than moderate. I'm guessing they were going for the keeping of "Delicious" with the flavor of Mac.

 

[Maylar]

The blend I'm fermenting now is 30% Winesap, 30% Fuji, 20% Granny Smith and 20% McIntosh. There were also some Quince's (whatever that is), crab apples and Aronia berries thrown in. This was a special hard cider pressing from a local orchard, and I was curious as to what the individual varieties would contribute. Of course the McIntosh is well documented for its sweetness and aroma but I couldn't find much on the others.

From what you said, I'm surprised the acid level of this juice is middle of the road - pH at 3.50 and TA at 5g/L. SG is about 1.054.

The Empires were part of another pressing that was very sweet (with Fuji, Mac's and Winter Banana), I ended up starting cysers with that and opting for this "special blend" for this year's cider.

Thanks for the input.