Where to get these brewing water additives?

[Rob2010SS]

Hey Guys/Gals. Doing a Russian Imperial Stout this weekend and I'm having a hard time finding some water additives to get my mash pH in line.

Using Bru'n Water, I've figured that I need the following in my strike water...
1. 5.1g Epsom Salt
2. 2.4g Magnesium Chloride
3. 3.4g Baking Soda
4. 4.0g Pickling Lime OR 6.4g Chalk (<-- Gave myself an option in case I couldn't find one or the other)

Here's my problem - the stuff in bold red, I can't find at my LHBS. Looked on NB, can't find it there either. Any suggestions?

 

[bitteritdown]

Food grade Magnesium Chloride flakes can be ordered on Amazon.

Picking lime can be bought at Walmart, a grocery store or even Amazon.

You'll want to avoid chalk as it's difficult to dissolve without bubbling CO2 through solution.

That's a lot of alkalinity you're adding... care to share your recipe?

 

[Ki-ri-n]

Pickling Lime is used in canning. Any place that carries canning supplies (Ball Canning Jars) might have PL as well. I got mine at Fleet Farm (or Farm and Fleet).

I only found Magnesium Chloride on Amazon. Haven't used it yet. Are you sure you NEED it?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Food grade Magnesium Chloride flakes can be ordered on Amazon.

Picking lime can be bought at Walmart, a grocery store or even Amazon.

You'll want to avoid chalk as it's difficult to dissolve without bubbling CO2 through solution.

That's a lot of alkalinity you're adding... care to share your recipe?

Sure, I'll insert a snap shot of it below. It is a lot that I'm adding but to get the mash pH down, I played around with it a lot and that's really what I came up with, unless I'm missing something...

Pickling Lime is used in canning. Any place that carries canning supplies (Ball Canning Jars) might have PL as well. I got mine at Fleet Farm (or Farm and Fleet).

I only found Magnesium Chloride on Amazon. Haven't used it yet. Are you sure you NEED it?

Again, do I need it? Not sure. I believe I used it to keep some of the other elements in the water down while trying to raise pH. Take a look at below and let me know what you think.

 

[Rob2010SS]

For further clarification, here is the snap shot from Bru'n Water. Again, unless I'm missing something, which could very well be the case, this is what was necessary to get the pH to an acceptable value. Look forward to additional information...

 

[bitteritdown]

There's nothing wrong with what you have there, some things I would change:

1.) Total Batch Volume should be 5 gallons?
2.) Don't be afraid of higher calcium and sodium values to avoid the use of esoteric salts (chalk and magnesium chloride) for example:

Addition gram/gal:

.5 g - gypsum
.75 g - calcium chloride
1g - baking soda
.61g - pickling lime

 

[Rob2010SS]

Ha, you are correct. I was thinking total batch volume was the combination of mash/sparge water.

Thanks for the input. Can I ask, is there a negative to using the chalk and magnesium chloride vs higher calcium and sodium values?

 

[Rob2010SS]

There's nothing wrong with what you have there, some things I would change:

1.) Total Batch Volume should be 5 gallons?
2.) Don't be afraid of higher calcium and sodium values to avoid the use of esoteric salts (chalk and magnesium chloride) for example:

Addition gram/gal:

.5 g - gypsum
.75 g - calcium chloride
1g - baking soda
.61g - pickling lime

So what you recommend looks like this....

Seems to be an acceptable water profile based on the readings in the water knowledge tab. Also easier to find the additions for that.

 

[bitteritdown]

Chalk doesn't easily dissolve in water, you need to bubble CO2 through the solution...

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Building_brewing_water_with_dissolved_chalk

Use baking soda and/or pickling lime instead.

Some people still use chalk but it may not be as effective as you're led to believe.

Magnesium chloride doesn't necessarily have any negatives except that for most it's not readily available (special order item).

In a big stout higher calcium and sodium values don't necessarily have any negatives and probably work to enhance the beer. A lighter beer they'd definitely cause a metallic/salty/mineral flavor.

 

[bitteritdown]

So what you recommend looks like this....

View attachment 552995

Seems to be an acceptable water profile based on the readings in the water knowledge tab. Also easier to find the additions for that.

Yes, that's the route I would go down, but feel free to modify as you see fit.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Sold me on it. Less special order ingredients the better! Thanks.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Bitteritdown has given some good suggestions here, the only thing I'd add is to drop the Magnesium. It isn't needed and some brewers (myself included) dislike the taste it the finished beer.

 

[Rob2010SS]

@Gnomebrewer yep, dropped it. Thanks for the input.

Last question. I've read some other posts about not adding the pickling lime to the water directly, to dough in and then add it. Is this the way it should be done? I'm only asking because this is going to be one thick mash and putting my MLT at the limit. I can do it if need be but not sure how much I'll be able to stir it up. Can I add half the grain, add the pickling lime and stir and then add the rest of the grain?

How long do I let that sit to check pH to make sure it's in line? 10 min?

 

[mabrungard]

Mag Chloride is like Calcium chloride, they are hygroscopic (they suck up moisture from the air). In addition, we don't typically need much Mg in brewing water. For those reasons, I find its better to use Epsom salt if you really want to add Mg (its only really helpful in hoppy and well-bittered styles).

As mentioned, pickling lime is preferred over chalk. You can often find pickling lime in Walmart and other stores that have a lot of canning supplies when its canning season. But I find that pickling lime isn't really necessary since baking soda can be effectively used in those rare cases when we want to add alkalinity to mashing water. Don't worry about the sodium since you won't be adding much baking soda and its only added to the mashing water. The resulting sodium content isn't that bad and it can actually improve flavor in dark beers.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Mag Chloride is like Calcium chloride, they are hygroscopic (they suck up moisture from the air). In addition, we don't typically need much Mg in brewing water. For those reasons, I find its better to use Epsom salt if you really want to add Mg (its only really helpful in hoppy and well-bittered styles).

As mentioned, pickling lime is preferred over chalk. You can often find pickling lime in Walmart and other stores that have a lot of canning supplies when its canning season. But I find that pickling lime isn't really necessary since baking soda can be effectively used in those rare cases when we want to add alkalinity to mashing water. Don't worry about the sodium since you won't be adding much baking soda and its only added to the mashing water. The resulting sodium content isn't that bad and it can actually improve flavor in dark beers.

So, not to ask such a noob question, but am I hearing you correctly in saying to skip the pickling lime and just go with baking soda?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Actually, that doesn't look too bad either. Here's what that looks like. Acceptable?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Personally, I'd drop the CaCl2 or CaSO4 to get 50ppm Calcium and drop a bit of baking soda to aim for a 5.6 mash pH. Otherwise, it looks good.

 

[mabrungard]

So, not to ask such a noob question, but am I hearing you correctly in saying to skip the pickling lime and just go with baking soda?

Yes. Both can supply alkalinity in those rare cases where its needed in the mash. The problem with pickling lime is that can lose its purity since air moisture reacts with lime and eventually reverts the lime into chalk. You've already seen chalk mentioned as a poor choice for alkalinity addition since it doesn't dissolve in a timely manner. Baking soda seems to retain its purity and alkalinity when stored properly (which is pretty much in any container).